Don Cohen

Well, it happened again. I found that the Driver for the Luma IP Cameras had an update available, so I did the update. I hoped that this might fix the issue where the video feed from the 2 Luma cameras don't show up when logged into the NVR using Chrome (it works fine in IE). I next rebooted the Controller. I then checked the camera view in the Control4 App and found that once again, the Driveway feed now showed for both Driveway and Patio. And the HTTP Port for the Patio camera, which should be 65002, had changed back to 65001. Very frustrating. And it didn't fix the problem when using Chrome. So I'm back to square one. I have confirmed that I now have the most current Firmware and Drivers for the Luma IP Cameras, but still have both problems: Something spontaneously changes the HTTP Port for one of the cameras from 65002 to 65001 (perhaps during a reboot of the Controller?) Despite the claims that the firmware updates for the Luma NVR and Cameras would enable viewing of the camera video feeds in Chrome, that only works when logged into the individual IP's for each camera, and not when logged into the NVR itself (which is the only way to have all cameras shown in a single browser tab) Any ideas on how and why this could occur, and suggestions on how to fix either of these, would be appreciated.

Yes, I'm aware. In fact, one of the reasons I wanted to upgrade the firmware is that one of the improvements is the ability to use Chrome to access Luma devices, and not have to rely on IE. So basically I was in a Catch 22 situation - I needed to use IE to update the firmware in order to even have the option to use another browser. Interestingly, I can now access the camera's video using Chrome, but only by navigating to the individual camera's IP address (e.g. 192.168.254.2). If I go to the Luma NVR (also 510 series), which does have the most current firmware, the video feed from these cameras does not show up. It accesses them differently (e.g. 192.168.104.100:65001). I've asked SnapAV about this, but they haven't replied yet. It's the same with Edge. So unless I have something misconfigured (which is possible), I still need IE to show all the cameras in one Window.

To follow-up on this: I contacted Snap AV Support, and they suggested running IE 'as administrator', and that worked. The file then showed up in the Browse window, and the updates proceeded uneventfully. Whether or not this fixes the original problem I posted about, time will tell, as there never seemed to be anything specific that triggered it. Any other thoughts always welcome.

Ok, so I downloaded the Firmware File for the LUM-510-BUL-IP-GR, which is the model of the 2 cameras in question: X10_IPC_5.5.52_210429.zip. Extracting it, there is a single file, digicap.dav, which I placed on my Desktop. I logged into the Drive camera, went to Maintenance, Update, and when I click Browse, and navigate to the Desktop, it doesn't "see" the file, despite the fact that it's there. I put a copy in the default location the Browse function goes to, Documents, but still no joy. I'm doing this using Internet Explorer, logging in using the Link present in the Configuration page of the NVR itself. I also logged in directly to the IP address of the camera itself, but had the same problem. Is there a different way to log into the camera to update the firmware? The Browse function here also acts a bit weird: it doesn't see the other files and folders on the Desktop, even though it shows *.* as the file criterion. Update: I just found that if I manually type in the file name, digicap.dav, into the "File name" field in the browse window shown above, it will then show it on the camera's configuration page, even though it didn't actually show the file in that folder: The release notes for the firmware indicate something odd as well: "Once you have downloaded the firmware to your local computer, click Browse and navigate to it (DVR files have a .dav extension, while NVR files have a .mav extension)." I only see the .dav file in the zip file, and I do have an NVR. I don't know if it's 'expecting' an *.mav file, but in looking through SnapAV's downloads, didn't see anything other than the .zip file I mentioned above. I haven't yet told it to do the update, using the digicap.dav file, since the instructions seem to indicate I should be using an *.mav file. Maybe that's just for the situation where I would be updating the NVR's firmware, rather than the cameras. But I would hate to brick the camera by using the wrong firmware file. Thanks.

Thanks for the reply. I hadn't checked this, and found: Drive and Patio Cameras: V5.5.52 build 181220 SnapAV's current firmware as of 5/6/2021: V 5.5.52 build 210429 I guess there's no reason not to update these, although it's hard to connect the problem I'm seeing with the camera's firmware, since everything on the Luma side seems to be working fine. On the other hand, the release notes for this firmware indicate that access in Chrome should now work, which would be nice. I'm always a bit hesitant to do firmware updates on devices that are working well, but seems like I should. Just out of curiosity, can one revert to a prior firmware should problems arise? Thanks again.

This is a weird one, but it has happened sporadically, perhaps 6 to 10 times over the last 6 months or so. It involves 2 Luma 510 series IP bullet cameras: one is labelled Drive (for Driveway), and the other called Patio. Every once in a while, when looking at the camera feeds within Control4, the camera view for Drive is showing for both cameras. In Composer Pro, I've discovered that when this happens, the HTTP Port for the Patio Camera is now 65001, the same as it is for the Drive Camera, while it should be 65002. I can post screen captures showing this if that would help. When it happens, I just have to change it to 65002, set it, refresh navigators, and all is back to normal. But then it will crop up again sometime down the road. Checking the Luma 510 NVR, the Port numbers are as they should, so the cameras display properly when accessed via the Luma App, Internet Explorer, etc. I will periodically go into Composer Pro to change or add programming for various reasons, but *never* do anything pertaining to the cameras - and why would I?! It just seems that every once in a while, just the fact of opening Composer Pro, and doing something/anything, will somehow trigger this Port change. Any ideas on why, or even how, this could happen, and what I can do to prevent it? It's easily fixed, but it is inconvenient, and potentially embarrassing if happens to occur when demoing the system for someone!

Exactly. I forget which model/firmware started this change, but the newer Installation Modes are accessed the same way the previous Lens Memories were. The IR codes are the same, and I suspect the IP will as well. Installation Modes allow configuring a number of other parameters besides Lens Memory, but this is where Lens Memories are configured.

I appreciate the good ideas on programming. The TP-Link powerline devices came in this morning, and I was able to get everything set up and secured, with the WiFi piece in my crawlspace. Flo App shows a solid 4 bars, and with my phone shows 25mbps bandwidth, so I think I should be good to go here. I don't know if the somewhat more humid conditions under there, with more temperature fluctuations than within the house, will prematurely age it, but hopefully it should last a while. It's a cheap fix if it needs to be replaced down the road. Got both pieces for $80. The Flo is still in "learning" phase, but it will be interesting to see its analysis once it has enough data. Overall I'm pretty happy with this addition.

Hope it comes soon, dinom. For those of you who have the Moen Flo Shutoff Valve, and using the Cinegration Driver, it seems to me that for the various alerts and warnings, monitoring and such, there would be duplication of function doing this within Control4, since the Flo App already does this. There might be more 'granularity' with the Cinegration Driver, but it seems the basics are covered by the Flo App fairly well. I love that I can programatically control the Shutoff Valve with Control4, which is the main reason I went with this system, and this seems to work quite well. But for those who have had this setup in use for a longer time, I am curious to know what you use Control4 and Cinegration to do, independent of what the Flo App provides? Options may occur to me as time goes on, but I'd be interested to hear how others utilize the Driver and Control4 in your homes.

Just to follow-up here, my plumber installed the Moen Flo yesterday, I installed and configured the Flo App, and everything seems to be working well. I added the Cinegration Driver, which also seems to be working just fine. I also placed the 3 sensors I had in appropriate locations around the house. The only problem I'm having is getting enough of a WiFi signal to the Flo, which is in my crawlspace. I repositioned a WAP to a closer location, which helped, but I'm still getting 2 bars, sometimes 3. For this type of device I want a more solid signal for reliability, so I just ordered a TP-Link Powerline Kit, where the 2nd device will generate a WiFi signal. I can plug that into the light socket in the crawl space where the Flo adapter gets its power, and hopefully this will get me a really strong signal and connection. I realize the Powerline doesn't support particularly high bandwidth, but since this will only be used for the Flo, and since I can't imagine it needs a big data pipe, I think this should work well. I created some programming for when we're on vacation, and my wife wants the drip irrigator she has in our yard to work, to turn the water on for the hour or so she wants, morning and night, and then turn off again. I appreciate the recommendations and information here, as it looks like this should work out well, and meet my needs.

Interesting. That's the same price that Crutchfield had for the Valve for a couple of days (sale no longer active). Moen still has the 3-pack of sensors for $129.99; Crutchfield had it at $99.99 for those 2 days. Looks like I really lucked out! UPS has it scheduled for delivery today, and the plumber is coming Monday. Looking forward to getting this all set up.

DAM-it confirmed that the Valve itself is not 'smart' and their system relies on the external sensors to detect leaks. I lost interest after discovering that. I have an email in to LeakSmart, but no reply yet. Wanting to get this done, I happened to find the Moen Flo on sale at Crutchfield yesterday, so picked up the Valve and a set of 3 Sensors for $450. Should be here in a couple of days. I'm now looking for a Plumber to get everything installed. And I'm glad the Cinegration C4 Driver is now up and running, so look forward to having all this in place shortly.

I've been reading DAM-it's documentation more closely, and my impression is now that leak detection is dependent on having external sensors in place. They don't seem to describe any monitoring function in the valve itself - just the ability to manually shut it or open it, or have this done automatically, triggered by what the sensors detect. I have emailed them to confirm this, and determine if I'm missing something. If this turns out to be the case, then I'll be leaning more heavily toward Moen Flo, based on all the comments and experience here, as well as taking a closer look at LeakSmart..

Yup. All good now.

The Status page has been updated: Google and Alexa voice services are currently unavailable for all customers. At least it's not some quirk in my system.

Still unable to re-link. And now the Google Voice connection is also indicating it can't reach Control4. Seems like it has to be on the Control4 side of things. I checked the Control4 Status page, and no outages are currently reported. Nobody else?

This problem recurred this morning. I've seen it from time to time in the past. Usually I unlink the accounts, reboot the controller, and then re-link the accounts. This time, it's not working, even after 2 controller reboots, and multiple attempts. It's been more than an hour now. I'm still getting: "We were unable to link Control4 at this time.Please try again later." Anybody else seeing this today, or it just a local quirk in my system?

Yeah, I'm still leaning toward the idea that I'd be happy with any of these three. I've not heard of any 'red flags' or overt problems with any of them.

Thanks for that @RAV. While I don't know that I need that kind of detail, it is pretty cool to see that data. I'm double-checking on DAM-it to see how it compares in this respect.

@Cinegration - many thanks for your very informative posts. I'm not sure I need/want that level of water analysis, for our relatively simple empty-nest needs, but I have to admit that is pretty cool to be able to get that level of detail.

Oh, I agree RAV. I was just trying to address the question of whether or not Sensors were *required* for any of these 3 products in order to react to leaks. Some posts suggested that they were required, but as best I can determine, each brand had a product that can do this without Sensors. In other words, the 3 brands are the same in this regard, and this factor can't be used to differentiate between them, or choose one above the other on that basis. But whichever I get, I'll definitely include a few Sensors to optimize leak detection and response.

Appreciate the additional replies. As best I can currently determine, all 3, or at least the highest models of each, do include water monitoring to detect leaks, and do not require external sensors for this function. Obviously, external sensors can enhance and better locate leaks, but it doesn't seem like they're required for basic leak detection for any of them. But if this isn't correct, please advise. I'm getting the impression that all are pretty good, and owners of each are satisfied with their performance. So perhaps there's no clear 'winner' in this category?

Good to know about the Cinegration driver, so thanks for that. So it seems that all 3 - Dam-it, Leaksmart, and Moen Flo - all have Control4 Drivers, and will apparently meet my needs as I have defined them. My question is therefore on what basis would I choose one over the other? What are the major differences, advantages/disadvantages, in terms of functionality, reliability, cost, ease of installation or setup, or other factors?

Appreciate the replies. I do remember that option mentioned. What does it have or do, or do better, than Dam-it? In other words, on what basis would I choose leaksmart over Dam-it (or Moen Flo)?

I've read all the threads and comments I could find on this topic, but before finalizing my purchase, wanted to make sure I had as much current information as possible. I am wanting to be able to turn the water to my home on and off as needed. For example, when going on Vacation, I would prefer the water to be turned off, but this creates problems with my wife running her timed irrigation for a flower garden she has. With Control4, and an appropriate device, I can meet both goals. I'll likely also want a few remote sensors for when we're at home, with the valve also having the ability to turn the water off automatically if it detects leaks as well. I want Control4 integration to be flexible, versatile, and reliable. Moen Flo seems well respected, but I've read conflicting information about the status of the Cinegration driver. I'm currently leaning toward Dam-it (getting the starter kit with the actuator, ball valve, and 3 sensors), which has a free Control4 driver. It also seems to get good reviews by posters here. The fact that it is available via Control4 itself seems to be a good thing. Any other viable options to consider that would meet my needs? I'd prefer to keep things as simple as possible, avoiding more complicated 3rd party hardware and integration. Any suggestions, experiences, facts that I might be overlooking, relative strengths and weaknesses of the various options, will be appreciated.