Can I setup Control4 by myself?

[usurp]

Hey guys quick question, is control4 DIY friendly? I'm cheap (or frugal is the right word) and would rather try and install everything myself. But checking the forums and some websites it seems Control4 are very closed and dont want users to be able to do stuff themselves. I need to pay for everything...

So is it something I can buy and install myself? I'm a geek, I can't do any programming but I can understand some of it.

Second question, now that 2.0 is here, is that a free upgrade or a paid one?

[thecodeman]

No, you need a dealer to do initial installation and configuration.

2.0 is a paid upgrade. If you buy new equipment the license is included.

[ichbinbose]

Control4 is not a DIY. Although if you really wanted to do some setup yourself you may be able to find a dealer willing to accommodate you.

As for final setup and programming only a Control4 dealer is able to do this. This is even more the case with 2.0 since the software is now locked down.

[usurp]

Wow that sucks. What stops me from doing the setup myself? I mean if I get an hc300 and some dimmer switches how hard would it be to set it up?

[ichbinbose]

No software=no work

[usurp]

Which software, composer pro? Doesn't the home edition work the same way? Can't I buy composer pro used from eBay or something?

[thecodeman]

Which software, composer pro?

Yes

Doesn't the home edition work the same way?

No

[usurp]

Ok, one more question. Does the dealer have to set it up every time I add a new switch or something or do they set it up the first time and then everything just works?

[ichbinbose]

Anytime you wish to add or change a product you would have your dealer do this. Composer HE allows you to change programming, not products/bindings

[usurp]

This just depressed me. I finally figured out which system to go with and just like that I have to start again. I guess its back to looking at the x10

[thecodeman]

This just depressed me. I finally figured out which system to go with and just like that I have to start again. I guess its back to looking at the x10

Look at cinemar or CQC for full DIY.

[crazybuppie]

This just depressed me. I finally figured out which system to go with and just like that I have to start again. I guess its back to looking at the x10

Look at cinemar or CQC for full DIY.

+1

Don't shoot the messengers (dealers)....It is a Control4 policy.

Composer Pro now requires a valid license to operate, so even if you got a copy from ebay or something similar, it would do you no good.

Composer HE lets you do almost any kind of programming...you'd just need the dealer to add new devices to the project and tell the system where they are connected.

[dogdvr]

Usurp

Nothing has really changed since your post on jun 12

Well audio i don't listen much to at home and video I use xbmc with its own dedicated remote and not really interested in using it with the control4 panel. I saw a demo online of xbmc with control4 but seems too gimmicky. I just read about mycontrol4 and it seems kinda messed up that I need to pay to access my home network :S

If you are just looking for lighting control you can go with the sytems mentioned above, In fact from reading your posts you seem really comfortable with PC operations so the homeseer and CQC systems are right up your alley.

In fact there is a really detailed thread over at AVS with a gentleman who went totally DIY with HAI.

Please do not stop in your search for automation, but please take a look at these solutions that might fit your needs better.

Brent

[usurp]

well i was ready to move on but my wife really likes control 4 and the pretty ipad app (actually i like the ipad app as well) so thats why i was back checking up on control4. Oh well... thanks everyone.

[AK1]

well i was ready to move on but my wife really likes control 4 and the pretty ipad app (actually i like the ipad app as well) so thats why i was back checking up on control4. Oh well... thanks everyone.

I struggled with this myself when I chose C4 for my homer about 1 year ago. I am very comfortable around computing, programming, networks, AV gear etc. Based on my first meeting with 5 different dealers, none of them brought any value to my project.

I explained to them I am a sophisticated IT homeowner with no experience implementing C4 but a clear idea of what I wanted and willing to learn from the dealer's approach. I told them I was not the sort of "consumer" home owner who need "high margin hand-holding". This last statement scared off at least two dealers right away!

I was willing to pay them an hourly rate as consultant's to help me design and implement my project. I was looking for a partner to work through my project as two professionals might collaborate efficiently without a whole lot of training and coaching needed.

Another issue for the dealers was I had amassed about 50% of the equipment I needed from online resources prior to starting the project.

My frustration with the first 5 dealers was they all wanted many thousands of dollars simply to design the system on "paper". As an IT professional, I largely knew the system design I wanted. While I expected my dealer to influence the design based on their own approach, I didn't want to pay $10,000 for a design that was already 80% clear in my mind. They were treating my C4 project as akin to an SAP installation! The first 5 dealers were horrified (no exaggeration) that I already owned about 75% of my C4 equipment. They couldn't come to terms with the fact I could buy some equipment, not all of it, cheaper than they could or would sell it to me. They spoke about the potential horrors of supporting me if some of my self-supplied equipment needed support. There was a surprising amount of fear-mongering around this - akin to scary movies at Halloween! I asked them to agree on a fixed margin to buy equipment through them and if I could get it significantly cheaper elsewhere then I would do so. This was a big "no" for them.

So basically I had found 5 dealers who wanted to charge me many tens of thousands of dollars for services that I didn't really want or need and who couldn't come to terms with my own inventory of C4 equipment. There was also great consternation that they wanted to charge $100 per hour or so for pre-wiring whereas my contractor's wiring guy who does nothing but pre-wiring for a living was profoundly cheaper.

And the dealers all wanted to design or "own" my home network. My own networking capabilities were more than enough and I didn't like the fear-mongering around having to use certain types of networking equipment, the supposed fragility of the C4 networking environment etc.

I thankfully found a dealer (an electrical PEng) who actually lives and works about 150 km away was willing to work with me as a partnership:

* I provide my own equipment where appropriate. If there are support issues or warranty issues for my equipment, I pay by the hour

* C4 equipment I buy through him would be at an agreed profit-margin. He provided about 25% of the C4 equipment.

* Network, AV and other equipment I am free to buy from wherever I see fit. In most cases I could buy quite a bit cheaper than he could so I provided my own Onkyo receiver, IP cameras, wireless AP. He provided router, switch, rack and AV matrix.

* I use my pre-wiring contractor and my dealer supervises. Any issues with cable runs I take up with my contractor

* System design work was at hourly rate $X and programming at hourly rate $Y

We designed the system in a few hours face-to-face and over the phone. This was a $1,000 expense, not $10,000. My wiring guy did the pre-wire. My dealer supervised and did the actual equipment connections. We collaborated on the initial programming. He sold me a copy of Composer HE and in a week or so I was pretty much "in charge" of my own destiny with programming. I progressively expanded the system with some new AV components. I "took over" the rack and installed these myself while did the setup remotely via Composer Pro.

At the end of the day, the system is "mine" in the sense I control all programming, wiring and add and remove items from the rack as I need. When I need help, my dealer is there at an hourly rate. I assumed the risk of paying for more hours than anticipated by providing my own equipment, wiring services etc. The alternative would have been paying by my calculation $40,000 to $50,000 more than I needed for design services, dealer wiring, higher priced equipment and ending up with a "closed" system that the dealer would be the only person to support going forward. This to me was expensive insurance and I was willing to adopt more risk, learn my own system and take ownership of it in return for a much cheaper solution that I had ownership and control of.

I have a great relationship with my dealer and am now able to teach him some stuff around networking, VPN's and C4 programming -). We do a lot of stuff remotely and on the phone. My system has evolved to a great showpiece for him for prospective customers because I was able to enhance and expand it myself. It would never have got to the level it is at if I had to pay for every step. And I am happy to act as a reference and showcase my system when needed.

The moral of the story is a collaborative partnership was a win-win for my background and circumstances.

Edited July 3, 2010 by AK1

[usurp]

I have a 2 bedroom house and asked for just lighting, climate and shutter control and maybe the ability to monitor my house from the web and have music in my bathroom. I got a quotation for over $20,000.

I got recommended

16 dimmer switches totaling $3,500

3 ethernet speaker points totaling $3,000

1 HC-300 for $1,500

2 HC-200 for $2,000

18 wireless access cards for $4,000

2 entrance outdoor cameras with server for $4,200

and the list goes on and on...

And its like wow wtf? I mean this was the first quotation and I can still go back and sit with them and discuss what I need or not need but the prices are double and triple the prices I can find online. So I hope if control4 people are reading this, they need to know they should give us the ability to set everything up ourselves. Of course not every Joe and Jane will be able to set it up themselves but at least for us geeks, let us do it ourselves.

I managed to find the Composer Pro software online and it seems easy to use so why don't they just let us regular folks purchase a license for it and use it? Or at the very least why don't they monitor their dealers and make sure the prices stay fairly the same wherever they are...

[henniae]

I have a 2 bedroom house and asked for just lighting, climate and shutter control and maybe the ability to monitor my house from the web and have music in my bathroom. I got a quotation for over $20,000.

How many shutters do you have? 18 or more???

[cvlboy]

I love this forum.

[ILoveC4]

Usurp, are you in the USA? That pricing is nuts for here, but Ihave seen similar pricing in Europe, Australia and Africa.

[noobie1930]

This just depressed me. I finally figured out which system to go with and just like that I have to start again. I guess its back to looking at the x10

Look at cinemar or CQC for full DIY.

+1

Don't shoot the messengers (dealers)....It is a Control4 policy.

Composer Pro now requires a valid license to operate' date=' so even if you got a copy from ebay or something similar, it would do you no good.

Composer HE lets you do almost any kind of programming...you'd just need the dealer to add new devices to the project and tell the system where they are connected.[/quote']

he didn't shoot any messengers (dealers). he just managed to have a copy of composer pro software online.. LOL

[dogdvr]

Look at cinemar or CQC for full DIY.

+1

Don't shoot the messengers (dealers)....It is a Control4 policy.

Composer Pro now requires a valid license to operate' date=' so even if you got a copy from ebay or something similar, it would do you no good.

Composer HE lets you do almost any kind of programming...you'd just need the dealer to add new devices to the project and tell the system where they are connected.[/quote']

he didn't shoot any messengers (dealers). he just managed to have a copy of composer pro software online.. LOL

What conversation are you talking about?

He never mentioned having pro, no one else did, so what the heck are you talking about?

[ILoveC4]

It would really benefit your to read the thread in its entirity dogdvr. Here's a quote from post #16:

I managed to find the Composer Pro software online

[dogdvr]

My Bad

[Paddy]

I have recently just finished my Control4 setup, and yes I did a huge amount of it myself.

I just set up the structured wiring dropping all speaker wires and cat5e run throughout the house to the

central closet. At this point I bought a C4 8 zone amp an HC-300 a 10 dimmer pack, and a 7 inch touch screen. (all online)

Dimmers were easy to put in. I than cut into the drywall and powered up the 7 inch touch screen.

Now this is as far as I really wanted to go, I than called a local dealer to come over and

basically activate all of the dimmers and equipment with Composer Pro.

It took 4 hours at 90 per hour.

So you can do a lot yourself it depends on your comfort level, However do not underestimate the power of a good intergrator/dealer , some of these guys are great and are worth every penny

But as mentioned in this post, I easily saved myself 20,000 to 30,000

But if the dealer had to do all the wiring work and installing speakers etc...

that hourly rate can run up real fast.

My advice to people who are considering Control4 is to get a budget in mind and work within it,

I personally Love what I have done for under 10,000 including all the hardware I purchased

I currently have

11 - dimmers

1 - 6 button keypad

1 - 8 Zone amp

12 speakers, including two on the patio

1 - netgear media player

1 - 2 terabyte NAS drive

1 - apple airport extreme

1 - cable box

1 - Basic Sony receiver that does HDMI passthrough

So yes you can do it yourself, but don't be afraid to get help at the appropriate time

[jdc2673]

I am in need of a new router for my control4 install...any suggestions?