Control4 Multi Channel Amplifier Problems

I just got home and I noticed my Control4 multi channel amplifier making a blinking/chime noise and the front display is out... it just blinks a black screen on and off with this chime noise. I can also hear this chime noice behind the TV in our upstairs master bedroom with the TV on or off. Sounds like it's coming through the cables or the Panamax in wall outlet. In the meantime I have disconnected the multichannel amplifier so I don't have to hear this blinking/chime noise and to prevent any possible problems. I've rebooted the system and checked all connections, but can't get the amplifier to reset or perform properly. I would appreciate it if anyone here has any recommendations to correct this or does it just sound like the amplifier is defective? Thank you.

Scott

This is affecting my multiple zones music listening...nothing plays. Any thoughts?

What version of the Control4 Amplifier do you have? Is it a new v.3 amp, or an older version 1 or version 2?

The Version 3 amp is the new industrial design, with the rounded corners and the gold-plated speaker lugs.

The Version 1 or 2 are the older design, with red and black plastic speaker lugs.

RyanE

What version of the Control4 Amplifier do you have? Is it a new v.3 amp, or an older version 1 or version 2?

The Version 3 amp is the new industrial design, with the rounded corners and the gold-plated speaker lugs.

The Version 1 or 2 are the older design, with red and black plastic speaker lugs.

RyanE

Hi Ryan,

It's model number: AVM16A1-B

It has the black and red plastic speaker lugs. It's about a year and a half old.

Scott

It's model number: AVM16A1-B

It has the black and red plastic speaker lugs. It's about a year and a half old.

Well, you have a V.1 Amplifier, and after consulting engineering here, it sounds like your power supply is going out.

Control4 has an upgrade option for V.1 amplifiers that replaces the power supply and makes changes to bring the amplifier up to the V.2 level. Your dealer would have to contact Tech Support about it, and send it in for the upgrade.

I don't know the exact cost of the V.2 upgrade (I believe it's somewhere around $200-$300), but it'd certainly be less expensive than replacing the amp.

Ask your dealer about it.

New Control4 products have a 2-year warranty across the line, but it sounds like this was purchased before that change, unfortunately.

RyanE

I wonder if they would consider extending the warranty in good faith since it's not that far outside the one year warranty and they have extended it to 2 years. Doesn't hurt to ask.

Thank you for letting me know about the upgrade.

I also have a LCD touch panel in my master bedroom that always goes out and the dealer tells me to just reboot the system. He said it's very common for the mini touch screens to lose their connection to the controller... is this true? The other LCD touch screens don't do this... just the master bedroom one.

Scott

Ryan doesn't have the power to OK that warranty extension (nor do I think he'd want it... hehehehe) - but I don't see it happening here, as the v1 amp hasn't been made now for 2 years... so it's not "just" out of warranty, it's out by over a year - sorry (we're up to v3 amps now FYI).

As for the LCD - I don't think it's the LCD, I'd guess it's a problem with the wiring. How does it connect? Zigbee or CAT5? If it's CAT5 - have him CERTIFY / TEST (not just for continuity either!!!). If it's Zigbee - are you just at the "edge" of the Zigbee network possible? If so - maybe adding a repeater might help. I've NEVER heard of MTS or 10 button LCD's to require rebooting EVER!!! That's just wrong info no matter how you look at it.

Get that installer back there and tell him he did something wrong and needs to fix it!

Ryan doesn't have the power to OK that warranty extension (nor do I think he'd want it... hehehehe) - but I don't see it happening here, as the v1 amp hasn't been made now for 2 years... so it's not "just" out of warranty, it's out by over a year - sorry (we're up to v3 amps now FYI).

As for the LCD - I don't think it's the LCD, I'd guess it's a problem with the wiring. How does it connect? Zigbee or CAT5? If it's CAT5 - have him CERTIFY / TEST (not just for continuity either!!!). If it's Zigbee - are you just at the "edge" of the Zigbee network possible? If so - maybe adding a repeater might help. I've NEVER heard of MTS or 10 button LCD's to require rebooting EVER!!! That's just wrong info no matter how you look at it.

Get that installer back there and tell him he did something wrong and needs to fix it!

Oh no... not asking RyanE... I know he doesn't have or probably want that power.

It hasn't been made for over two years now???? That's interesting, considering I just had this Control4 system installed back in June/July 2006... that's one year, seven/eight months to date. They must have pulled this old dog off the shelf for my install then.

The LCD is connected CAT5. Can you define what you mean by CERTIFY/TEST the CAT5? Downstairs in my main rack, I have power over Ethernet injectors and was told to disconnect them and reconnect them, which basically reboots the LCD touch panels. Here is the exact language from my dealer/installer:

"The POE issue we have encountered before, only when a system or router has been rebooted or lost power and the IP address of router has changed. The touch-panels do not automatically refresh themselves on a consistent basis so they can loose communication with the media controller if something has changed on that end. Sometimes a manual power cycle is the only way for them to reconnect."

What do you think?

Scott

Get a UPS!!!

Certify means just that - get someone with a $5000 CAT5 tester to run diagnostics on the cable to make sure it meets the CAT5 specs put forth by IEEE.

But I also agree with lippavisual - sounds like you need a UPS! HIGHLY recommend one.

Also - I don't know that I agree with your dealer in that devices need / lose their IPs from the router... the entire nature of DHCP is that if a server is unavailable that the device will check back at regular intervals until an IP is found. So if it does reboot and the switch comes up before your router (assuming that's where the DHCP is) - it should still get an IP - it just might take a few minutes longer.

un-freakin-acceptable...It amazes me that a dealer would say "uh just reboot it" as a regular fix....A correctly installed C4 system RARELY involves a system reset....That kind of stuff makes me piping mad...Think about dropping 30k on a system only to have to run downstairs every 2 hours to press reset, or plug and unplug...My touch panel has NEVER lost connection to the controller, ever...That is not normal, I would suggest finding a new dealer if this one isn't cutting it....Sorry to rant, but come on, how is that acceptable customer service??? Find a dealer who is passionate about what he does, and who will treat your system like it was going into his own home..

Thank you all for your replies. I have left a couple emails/phone messages with the dealer, but he has not returned them. I will definately get a UPS... any suggestions? The racks in my home consisist of the following:

Downstairs (main rack)

Mid-Atlantic Rack

Verizon FiOS HD STB

D-Link High-Speed Wireless Router

Linksys Router/Switch

Onkyo 502B DVD player

Control4 Media Controller

Control4 Multi Channel Amp (on the fritz)

Onkyo 703B Receiver

Panamax M5300 surge/line conditioner

Upstairs Rack in Master Bedroom has:

Verizon FiOS HD STB

Onkyo 502B DVD Player

Onkyo Receiver

D-Link Adapter AirPlus Xtreme G Gaming

Control4 Home Theater Controller

XBox 360

Monster HTS2600MKII Power Center w/Stage 2 Clean Power

Any suggestions on improving (like adding a UPS) to my hardware (upgrade) would greatly be appreciated. Thank you.

Scott

APC SmartUPS's are great. You should have your main controller, modem (I'm assuming), routers and switch all connected. This will ensure that your equipment will not suffer from any normal electrical issues.

S10, S15 or S20 from APC... they're made for AV gear and work awesome! Size depends on how much wattage you have in the rack...

Still no fix... working with a new installer now and he's still waiting on a response back from Control4. Anyway, just providing some updates.

Well its going to be a $250 refurbished V2 amp replacement. It's ashame a $1,699 dollar multi channel amp only lasts 1.5 years. We'll give this a try. The other issues hopefully will be addressed under warranty since they have been ongoing issues since install like the master bedroom LED ethernet mini touch screen always not working and you have to reboot the over the ethernet boxes in the main rack. I will let you all know how things work out.

Scott

FYI - $250 is a great price to get it fixed / replaced... since it's out of warranty. I've got original v1 and v2 amps that are in the field now without any problems... so it would appear your amp is not the rule - but the exception. Good luck with getting it all fixed - it's a shame that your previous dealer left you hanging like this.

FYI - $250 is a great price to get it fixed / replaced... since it's out of warranty. I've got original v1 and v2 amps that are in the field now without any problems... so it would appear your amp is not the rule - but the exception. Good luck with getting it all fixed - it's a shame that your previous dealer left you hanging like this.

Thanks for the reassurance on the equipment. I will keep my fingers crossed. I also agree with you about my previous installer, hopefully, this new installer will get everything fixed.

Hello everyone. So the amp has been switched out and the HTC for the master bedroom was removed to be repaired (again). The new installer updated firmware and fixed the problematic HTC. Seems the HTC was causing problems with the connection issue up in our bedroom. I'm not sure exactly what was the repair for the mini touch screen, however, that is working normal again.

Now the new problem... This work was done in July of this year, my previous communication with the dealer was that I'd cover the cost of the V1 to V2 amp and labor and the rest would be a C4 warranty repair since these were pre-existing problems I had since the installation of the C4 equipment into my home. Well, I get a bill yesterday for $1,725.00 (mostly labor) from the work that was done in July. So, now I'm paying all over again for service and equipment that should have been installed and working properly at the start. To date I've had the following:

HTC not working (this has been an ongoing issue) in master bedroom (no TV, alarm, music, control over AV equipment, etc...). Shipped the HTC to dealer for repair on 4/07 after several telephone/email troubleshooting sessions from 8/06 to 4/07. We were still having issues with the HTC not working properly up until the new installer taking over and addressing the problem. Turned out to be a hardware and program issue.

Master Bedroom Mini Touch Screen not working (this continued to be an ongoing issue). I was required to constantly reboot the “Over the Ethernet Connection” boxes to regain functionality of the touch screen. Zigbee and/or Wi-Fi issue from what I understand.

10.5” touch screen required repair. Shipped to original installer at the same time I shipped the HTC for repair. Some type of card was replaced in the touch screen that went bad. Hardware issue.

Thermostat issues/not functioning properly. Returned T-Stat after home builder's HVAC tech found upstairs Master Bedroom T-Stat wired incorrectly and defective. Tried a new T-Stat, but that was not functioning properly as well. Hardware and install issue.

This system has been nothing but unreliable and given the amount of money this costs, is highly upsetting.

When I spoke with the new dealer that C4 recommended to take over for the previous dealer, I discussed the warranty repairs in reference to the problems related to the master bedroom HTC and MTS and he indicated that he would proceed in that direction (warranty repair). Well, 4 months later I get a bill for $1,725.00. I don't mind paying my share for the V2 amp upgrade and labor, but to pay for this other work when it should be a covered service visit... well, a conference call is in order to rectify this one.

More to come...

In regards to the other thread going and what I posted there (http://www.c4forums.com/viewtopic.php?id=1807), as far as the network problems go, C4 can't warranty that, as it's not *their* product. That's a *dealer* purchased / installed product and can only be handled as such. You'll notice that there are recommended devices, but every dealer sets up the network differently based on their past experience with what works and the overall scope of the project (and sadly, some do it based on price). The network issues would explain your having to "reboot devices whenever they have a problem".

In this case, networking must be warrantied by your dealer and not control4. If your old dealer sets up a crummy unstable network and disappears into the night, leaving you with a bag of empty promises and a lighter wallet, that sucks. But the network peices arent warrantied by c4 as they are made by other companies (dlink, linksys, cisco, hp, dell, netgear). At the point that C4 sells a network switch / router / wireless access point, *then* you could hold c4 responsible for the warranty on that hardware, and your dealer responsible for the installation.

Dont get me wrong I understand your frustration and as a network administrator I have been there done that and even as a C4 customer, have being shunned by one dealer and left hanging by another.

At the same token, I dont think you can expect your new dealer to come in and absorb all the costs of what the other guy screwed up. Some things will be covered by c4 warranty (truly defective equipement), some things would perform much better on a stable network (replacement cost is on your dime) and perhaps some of the labor could be offset by c4. This is a unique experience that will require the involvement of your new dealer and their local c4 sales rep.

Id like to know what percentage of C4 dealers have stopped being dealers... seems like there are a lot of posts on these forums referring to dealers that no longer offer C4 etc.

From many posts here related to connectivity issues related in individual C4 components in your system, many times it comes down to Zigbee, firmware, botched up programming (dealer problem) and failed C4 hardware. This isn't a C4 problem? It's the C4 hardware that's having the problems, not the router or other hardware.

So, what would your propose? Where do I go from here being that I was lead down the path that this was going to be covered by warranty? I routinely would just file suit, since I work in the legal arena, however, I'd like to come to some sort of arrangement before I escalate it legally.

What about the repair and reinstall of the HTC, MTS and wifi tablet... I have 11.0 hours of labor for this? Total labor was 16 hours, which amounts to $1,280.00 for a problem that was present prior to the new dealer.

Like I said, best bet is to take it up with the owner of the new company you are working with and ask him to get his C4 rep involved, especially if you cant get in touch with him. I would think that C4 would have an interest in a) helping you out and beating the other guy with a stick. YMMV. But in defense of your new dealer, you cant expect them to absorb the costs of the first guy's mistakes if C4 isnt going to reimburse him. My boss has been in a similar situation before, where he's redone his personal system three times with three different guys before he hired me and we found c4 and it actually does what he wants it to do (and was promised it would) now.

Like I said, best bet is to take it up with the owner of the new company you are working with and ask him to get his C4 rep involved, especially if you cant get in touch with him. I would think that C4 would have an interest in a) helping you out and beating the other guy with a stick. YMMV. But in defense of your new dealer, you cant expect them to absorb the costs of the first guy's mistakes if C4 isnt going to reimburse him. My boss has been in a similar situation before, where he's redone his personal system three times with three different guys before he hired me and we found c4 and it actually does what he wants it to do (and was promised it would) now.

Sounds good... I don't want to stick the new dealer with this as I agree, that's not fair. However, between the original dealer and C4, there should be some accommodations for these past issues.

Like I said' date=' best bet is to take it up with the owner of the new company you are working with and ask him to get his C4 rep involved, especially if you cant get in touch with him. I would think that C4 would have an interest in a) helping you out and beating the other guy with a stick. YMMV. But in defense of your new dealer, you cant expect them to absorb the costs of the first guy's mistakes if C4 isnt going to reimburse him. My boss has been in a similar situation before, where he's redone his personal system three times with three different guys before he hired me and we found c4 and it actually does what he wants it to do (and was promised it would) now.[/quote']

Sounds good... I don't want to stick the new dealer with this as I agree, that's not fair. However, between the original dealer and C4, there should be some accommodations for these past issues.

I agree, and wish you the best! Let us all know how it goes.