spoonman56 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Hello all,I am getting my new HC800 and going from 1.74 to 2.2 tomorrow. My dealer has warned me that the update process could take a few days....That seems like a very long time?I have 1- HC5001 Thermostat36 Dimmers / Switches6 - 6 buttons1 7" wifi portableThanx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterwilson Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 On site probably just a hour or 2. The dimmers and switches will take a while to complete the upgrade, but he doesn't have to be onsite for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Couple of days? LOLOLOLOLIt will take a while, but certainly not DAYS...unless you have dial up internet or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I guess if he means by a few days being the day he arrives and the day it finishes upgrading, yeah, two days might be accurate. We aren't getting the whole picture here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonman56 Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 I was not clear.He is going to start the update early am and leave. He said installing the HC800 and starting the upgrade would take about 1 hour.Then, upgrading all the switches / dimmers et al would take about 2 days. I just thought it was strange that the process took so long.Thanx... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Well, I got some of that right. 36 devices should take some time to each upgrade. I think dealer is giving you far-end timing on that but it will take awhile to go ZP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I don't keep track but I think that jump took 18 hours here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Why does everything have to update when the controllers are updated? Just curious why it's still not compatible like when a patch is installed for a computer os, you don't have to update all your other software or devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Why does everything have to update when the controllers are updated? Just curious why it's still not compatible like when a patch is installed for a computer os, you don't have to update all your other software or devices.The update hens doing is like going from XP to 64 bit Windows 7 Ultimate. Embernet to zigbee pro is time consuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 So the update from say 2.0 or 2.1 wouldn't take as long? Still just seems like an odd concept that every thing has to be updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 So the update from say 2.0 or 2.1 wouldn't take as long? Still just seems like an odd concept that every thing has to be updated.Seriously? Updating is an odd concept?1.7.4 was released a couple of years ago. He's updating to the new, most current version. Most updates, like 2.2.0 to 2.2.1 or 2.0.1 to 2.1.0 are very quick and easy. Some take less than 10 minutes and require absolutely NO user intervention other than hitting UPDATE.I am still struggling why you feel like updating the operating system on your electronic components is an "odd concept". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 So the update from say 2.0 or 2.1 wouldn't take as long? Still just seems like an odd concept that every thing has to be updated.Not *every* ZigBee device is updated for *every* version, but major versions will almost always have new ZigBee firmware, and it usually is for every ZigBee device, because devices run both the ZigBee stack, plus application-specific code (dimmer, keypad, remote, etc.). If the *stack* part of the code changes, that's every C4 device.It's worse in the Embernet (pre 1.8) to ZigBee Pro update, since there's not enough Flash ROM to hold both the full dimmer image and the full Pro image.Dimmers have to update to what's called 'Mini-App', which is a tiny Pro-compatible image, which basically has just enough brains to connect to the Pro mesh, then to start the real upgrade.Because of the double-update, plus having to learn each device into the Pro mesh the first time, the upgrade is 3-5x longer. Subsequent Pro updates are much faster than the 'double update', but Pro packets have a smaller payload area than Embernet, so ZigBee upgrades are just by definition slower.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Oh, and the 'double-update' does need more hand-holding than Embernet updates, or Pro updates, since each device has to be physically learned into the mesh after being updated to mini-app.There's also the situation that in single-controller updates, the controller can only do *either* embernet updates to Pro, *or* run the pro mesh, so there's some back and forth that has to happen.All in all, it works quite well, but there are a lot of moving pieces.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 First, im not trying to be smart or anything. This hust something I havent understood yet because I can't think of another product that when the operating system updates every related component must update as well. I can have Windows XP on a computer with attached devices, upgrade the os to Windows 7 and everything still works. If I update the firmware on my router it can still talk to every device attached to it physically and wirelessly, I don't have to update anything. My computer just finds the network an joins it nearly instantly.I guess I need to read some technical document on zigbee, I really hate not fully understanding something. It will drive me crazy until I do. I think I just found my next project for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 First, im not trying to be smart or anything. This hust something I havent understood yet because I can't think of another product that when the operating system updates every related component must update as well. I can have Windows XP on a computer with attached devices, upgrade the os to Windows 7 and everything still works. If I update the firmware on my router it can still talk to every device attached to it physically and wirelessly, I don't have to update anything. My computer just finds the network an joins it nearly instantly.I guess I need to read some technical document on zigbee, I really hate not fully understanding something. It will drive me crazy until I do. I think I just found my next project for awhile.All zigbee is, is a communication protocol. Like Bluetooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Yea, I'll still end up reading anything I can find. Ive been known to pick up physics text books just for the fun of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonman56 Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 Process started @ 10:00 AM.I didn't realize I had to upgrade to 1.8 before going to 2.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Process started @ 10:00 AM.I didn't realize I had to upgrade to 1.8 before going to 2.2.You don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonman56 Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 My Dealer says that the radio in the HC800 will not "talk" to my 1.7 devices.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterwilson Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 My Dealer says that the radio in the HC800 will not "talk" to my 1.7 devices....I'm glad I hung on to my hc300c... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 My Dealer says that the radio in the HC800 will not "talk" to my 1.7 devices....That may be true...I don't know. That's why he's the dealer and I'm the village idiot.I know the HC800 driver didn't exist until 2.1. It would make sense that he would move the project to 1.8, then add the HC800, move the project to the HC800 and then update the whole project to match 2.2, which is what will be on the HC800 out of the box.EDIT: Fix my typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 First, im not trying to be smart or anything. This hust something I havent understood yet because I can't think of another product that when the operating system updates every related component must update as well. I can have Windows XP on a computer with attached devices, upgrade the os to Windows 7 and everything still works. If I update the firmware on my router it can still talk to every device attached to it physically and wirelessly, I don't have to update anything. My computer just finds the network an joins it nearly instantly.I guess I need to read some technical document on zigbee, I really hate not fully understanding something. It will drive me crazy until I do. I think I just found my next project for awhile.You don't need to read a textbook on this subject to readily see that there are significant differences between Ember and ZP. Wireless protocol changed, so does the device using that radio. It takes time and the process (per device) generally goes well but not always.You bring up XP as an example. I recall, dealing with a number of XP machines that required updating, that one set of updates needed to come before continuing with more updates. Back in the day when I was pro-Apple, I also remember sequential updating was the norm. I know this isn't exactly what you are talking about but then again you really aren't comparing apples to apples.The only thing that is relevant in this thread is the fact that OP's dealer is doing this update and it should go OK they way he has planned. If not, thankfully there is a dealer there to fix it, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The HC800 driver didn't exist until 2.1.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 ^Yeah, I was wondering about that comment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 First, im not trying to be smart or anything. This hust something I havent understood yet because I can't think of another product that when the operating system updates every related component must update as well. I can have Windows XP on a computer with attached devices, upgrade the os to Windows 7 and everything still works. If I update the firmware on my router it can still talk to every device attached to it physically and wirelessly, I don't have to update anything. My computer just finds the network an joins it nearly instantly.This is certainly a good question, but I think you're looking at it wrong.Let's say the change is a change to the ZigBee Pro stack. Maybe the ability for the node to find the mesh after it's changed channels has been improved, or some timeout value has changed, or some efficiency in Control4's routing management has changed. Those kinds of changes don't pay off unless *all* the nodes are running the change.Each Control4 device is running an embedded OS, on the Ember ZigBee chip. If any change is made to that OS or stack, you want that change to be on *all* of them.Instead of looking at it like updating a single PC, It's more like updating all the machines in a datacenter, maybe for a security update for a vulnerability.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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