pstuart Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I was reading a review on http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/30/dish-hopper-whole-home-dvr-review/ and they mention that the RF remotes use Zigbee.Is this true? Could it be integrated into Control4? Or is IR the only option?Anyone switch to the Hopper / Joeys and have thoughts? I'm on Directv and looking at my options right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdvr Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 IR is the only option.While it is true that it could happen, (with zigbee). Last I heard dish is waiting on c4, c4 is waiting on dish.But I will say this Dish is very secretive on their IP protocol.Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 It's not ZigBee HA, it's ZigBee RF4CE, which is not directly compatible with HA.That is not an avenue for integration.As Brent said, for the time being, IR is the only option.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pstuart Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 For the time being... I understand... Nothing to see here...Any thoughts on it compared to whole home DVR via Directv? Thinking about upgrading directv to a HR34 HMC for 5 tuners of recorded (plus my existing 2 - 2 tuner DVRs) at $399 vs dish basically free ($150 first month) cause you just rent there hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 It seems like the Dish stuff is a lot of marketing, DirecTV's whole-home tech is great. Look at all the integration you have with C4 and DirecTV already. I have not used Dish, but nothing I see makes it worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceOfSpades Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Getting the Hopper and Joey combo this week. Been a Dish fan for a long time other than missing out on NFL Sunday Package. I will provide feedback of how I like the Hopper /Joey combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Even if it used Zigbee HA, it still would never work with C4. A manufacturer of a zigbee HA device would have to partner with C4 in order to integrate their product. First of all, a device would need to be able to join a C4 zigbee mesh (which of course is proprietary in it's implementation) **I believe, but am not certain, it would have to be programmed at the firmware level to make it work with C4. In other words, you can't just take something off the shelf that utilizes Zigbee HA and ID into a C4 system, even if you could write a driver for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Control4's ZigBee network has in the past required a specific ZigBee 'keepalive' message from the device from time to time, but that is being phased out as a requirement for 3rd-party devices, and I believe in 2.2 or later, you should be able to join an unmodified HA device to a Control4 mesh, and communicate with it, using a DriverWorks driver that speaks ZCL.I don't know how much that's been tested or tried, but that is the ultimate goal.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 It seems like the Dish stuff is a lot of marketing, DirecTV's whole-home tech is great. Look at all the integration you have with C4 and DirecTV already. I have not used Dish, but nothing I see makes it worthwhile.Couldn't agree more. Dish was my choice but that was just to be different. FiOS quality blows it away. Integration? anything will integrate with distributed architecture... Pay now or pay later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pstuart Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 Well, made the leap... 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys.Hoppers have IR support AND RF enabled out of the box (after pairing RF remote). The IR is to the right of the center leds for power and recording.The VIP722 driver works for the most part, missing PIP, Swap and Position and colored buttons, but was easy to add those IR Codes and set up custom buttonsFYI, here are the codes:Red 0000 0048 0001 0011 0017 0162 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0162 Green 0000 0048 0001 0011 0017 0162 0017 0060 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0162 Yellow 0000 0048 0001 0011 0017 0162 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0162 Blue 0000 0048 0001 0011 0017 0162 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0162PIP 0000 0048 0033 0000 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163SWAP 0000 0048 0033 0000 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163POSITION 0000 0048 0001 0011 0016 0163 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163Overall, there are ups and downs...Killer feature, Prime Time Anywhere (PTA) which records all 4 networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) via 1 tuner during primetime hours. Joeys are NOT receivers, they are "clients" to a hopper and need to be linked to one hopper or the other. When watching live tv on a hopper you are using one of the 3 available tuners on that hopper.Networking is simple, any of the hoppers needs an ethernet connection, then it bridges to the MOCA and the DUO adapter routes everything appropriately.Sling Adapter is simple, DishOnline.com is buggy, but works most of the time. Downside, is to access content on each Hopper you need a sling adapter for each Hopper (retail $50 but if you do the online test drive for 24 hours will provide you a coupon for one free, ask and you might be able to get 2 free).Picture quality is practically identical to Directv. Menus and system are 100% faster and 100% responsive via IR. Can't believe I put up with the buggy IP connectivity via Directv for so long. Can finally push the skip forward button x times, and it will actually skip x times ahead.You can access recordings on either Hopper from another hopper or each Joey, but have to switch between. No master list of recordings as of now. Supposedly that is coming in next major firmware, who knows...You can schedule recordings to go into custom named folders, which means my kids can record all their disney shows into a folder and I can record all mine into another folder, etc...Lots of little quirks and bugs, but customer support has been very responsive and accommodating so far.Overall, about $40 / month cheaper for everything, before discounts and I now have 6 dvr tuners vs 4 and all prime time shows recordable on one tuner and 2x the space of the HR24s.If you are interested in anything, ask me questions. If you switch, let me know before, I have referral codes for new subs which can get you a good deal, or so I've heard...Ironically, after dealing with Directv over the last week to try to get a HR34 for less than retail, I finally told them I was going to switch, they said they couldn't match the new sub deal of $100 for a hr34 and could not give me NFL Sunday ticket for free. Today after having Dish installed, I called to cancel and now they said they would match Dish's deal. So even if you don't switch, call Directv and get a better deal by talking to customer retention. If you don't get anywhere, hang up and call back during a different time of day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceOfSpades Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I made the switch 2 weeks ago also from the Dish VIP 722K. Agree with pstuart completely. The only issue I have is that periodically the Joey will lose connection to the Hopper and I find myself having to reboot the Hopper to get the Joey to recognize. Maybe just the infant processes for Dish Network Tech Support. I use the VIP 722K drivers also. Had to go in and modify all my Media Channels for Dish because of the channels changing. I had to also modify all the Sirius Audio channels also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pstuart Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Did you add the red, green, blue, yellow buttons?How did you map PIP, swap and position? I'm still trying to figure out the best way to do these functions within the 722k driver.Prime Time Anywhere is a killer feature, just hope they don't get sued out of existence because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 ^Chuckle. Although your comment is slightly "consumerist", I assure you Dish has a better chance of getting sued (again) by the FTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Well, made the leap... 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys.Hoppers have IR support AND RF enabled out of the box (after pairing RF remote). The IR is to the right of the center leds for power and recording.The VIP722 driver works for the most part, missing PIP, Swap and Position and colored buttons, but was easy to add those IR Codes and set up custom buttonsFYI, here are the codes:Red 0000 0048 0001 0011 0017 0162 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0162 Green 0000 0048 0001 0011 0017 0162 0017 0060 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0162 Yellow 0000 0048 0001 0011 0017 0162 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0162 Blue 0000 0048 0001 0011 0017 0162 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0060 0017 0060 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 00A3 0017 0162PIP 0000 0048 0033 0000 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163SWAP 0000 0048 0033 0000 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163POSITION 0000 0048 0001 0011 0016 0163 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0061 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 00A1 0016 0163Overall, there are ups and downs...Killer feature, Prime Time Anywhere (PTA) which records all 4 networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) via 1 tuner during primetime hours. Joeys are NOT receivers, they are "clients" to a hopper and need to be linked to one hopper or the other. When watching live tv on a hopper you are using one of the 3 available tuners on that hopper.Networking is simple, any of the hoppers needs an ethernet connection, then it bridges to the MOCA and the DUO adapter routes everything appropriately.Sling Adapter is simple, DishOnline.com is buggy, but works most of the time. Downside, is to access content on each Hopper you need a sling adapter for each Hopper (retail $50 but if you do the online test drive for 24 hours will provide you a coupon for one free, ask and you might be able to get 2 free).Picture quality is practically identical to Directv. Menus and system are 100% faster and 100% responsive via IR. Can't believe I put up with the buggy IP connectivity via Directv for so long. Can finally push the skip forward button x times, and it will actually skip x times ahead.You can access recordings on either Hopper from another hopper or each Joey, but have to switch between. No master list of recordings as of now. Supposedly that is coming in next major firmware, who knows...You can schedule recordings to go into custom named folders, which means my kids can record all their disney shows into a folder and I can record all mine into another folder, etc...Lots of little quirks and bugs, but customer support has been very responsive and accommodating so far.Overall, about $40 / month cheaper for everything, before discounts and I now have 6 dvr tuners vs 4 and all prime time shows recordable on one tuner and 2x the space of the HR24s.If you are interested in anything, ask me questions. If you switch, let me know before, I have referral codes for new subs which can get you a good deal, or so I've heard...Ironically, after dealing with Directv over the last week to try to get a HR34 for less than retail, I finally told them I was going to switch, they said they couldn't match the new sub deal of $100 for a hr34 and could not give me NFL Sunday ticket for free. Today after having Dish installed, I called to cancel and now they said they would match Dish's deal. So even if you don't switch, call Directv and get a better deal by talking to customer retention. If you don't get anywhere, hang up and call back during a different time of day.Thanks I have been looking for the PIP codes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srthomas21 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 How are the Joeys connected to your TVs? Obviously you have and HDMI connection but do you also need a coax cable and ethernet connection to each Joey?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I believe the Joeys just need a coax connection, no ethernet.They use MoCA to communicate over the coax.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srthomas21 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Thanks, also I know the Joeys have optical out- I assume it will output audio over hdmi and optical out simultaneously? I have a sound bar mounted under my TV that I haven't been able to use because my satellite receiver is in my AV closet and my TV's optical out won't pass through audio from the HDMI connection.I'm hoping this would alleviate that problem because I could use the Joey optical out to go into the sound bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pstuart Posted September 9, 2012 Author Share Posted September 9, 2012 RyanE,My testing revealed that my joey's needed coax to complete the install process, but after that, I put them on ethernet and removed the coax and they continue to function just fine. I did not try to set one up over ethernet only, so I don't know if this will work.From what I can tell, the Joey is just a slim client to the hopper over IP, so theoretically the joey should work as long as it gets an IP and can see the hopper.The joey's optical out does work while hdmi is active, as well. IR codes work no problem.Some pretty cool things coming down the line for the hopper / joey solution, far from a completed solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srthomas21 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 What new features have you heard are in the pipe? On another note I'm using Just Add Power for distributed Video throughout the home. It seems I wouldn't even be using Just Add Power for my satellite stuff anymore. Is this a correct assumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Yeah, you likely know more about the specifics, I haven't played with them much.I think the MoCA stuff is handy if you already have Coax in place and no Ethernet, though.Thanks for the additional info.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srthomas21 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I've got coax and ethernet at all my TVs so it shouldnt be an issue though if it works with ethernet after coax I may just have the installer run a temp coax to each TV and then switch to ethernet.So does each hopper unit have 2 tuners or 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srthomas21 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 How do the C4 remotes work with the hopper system? Do you just put the IR bud on the hopper itself or do they have to go on the Joey? I assume each remote needs to be programmed somehow so that it knows what Joey its controlling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pstuart Posted September 9, 2012 Author Share Posted September 9, 2012 What new features have you heard are in the pipe? On another note I'm using Just Add Power for distributed Video throughout the home. It seems I wouldn't even be using Just Add Power for my satellite stuff anymore. Is this a correct assumption?Well, it depends, do you want to pay $7 / joey or just put a few hoppers in the rack and distribute them out via HDMI?Each Hopper has 3 Tuners.1 tuner can be used to records Prime Time anywhere (up to 4 network broadcasts during prime time hours) so during that time it can record 6 channels.Each Joey uses a tuner if watching live tv.Each hopper uses 2 tuners if watching live tv (the 2nd is for PIP)When a joey is linked with a hopper, it doesn't automatically tie up a tuner, only when watching live tv. Also, you can hit the red button and Join any other session on the hopper, which is a great feature. Any joey's linked when no tuners are available can only access recorded or on-demand content.Joeys are not separate tuners, just clients to the hoppers.Frankly, you are better off going with as many hoppers as dish will allow you to have and skip the joeys, if you have video distribution already.As for features, I can't really say too much, but look for a lot more features and integration abilities shortly. I just hope they work out a few lingering bugs before adding new features.And yes, the MOCA stuff is very handy, I wish I had another Joey to test with, maybe I'll do a factory wipe on one and see if I can set it up via Ethernet only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srthomas21 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Can someone tell me what the position and swap commands actually do with the hopper system? I've modified the driver but I don't have the system installed yet.Just wondering if I would use these features. I would need to map them to buttons on the remote but don't want to bother if I'll never use them.Just curious what buttons on the remote others used to map these two IR codes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'm guessing position and swap have something to do with PIP (Picture In Picture).Typically, 'Swap' would cause what's in the PIP box to swap with what's outside the PIP box.'Position' usually moves the PIP box around.As I don't have a Hopper in front of me at the moment, that's only a guess.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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