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Electric roller blinds

Arjay12345

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Arjay12345 Enthusiast

Arjay12345

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Hi

I want to install roller blinds into my system at home. UK prices seem high (~£500) per blind, so have been checking out deals on Alibaba.com. They seem much cheaper (at least without delivery charges). Has anyone had any experience of buying off Alibaba?

I've spotted some branded models, such as Somfy.

Also, what type of motors do I need? I spoke to a UK roller blind dealer on the phone, and he was saying the best way to go is a dumb 4 core unit (2 x power, up/down). Is this how all units are configured or are there other connections?

And if I buy the 4 core model, can C4 be set to know what is fully down/fully up/partial?

Thanks

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Cyknight Grand Master

Cyknight

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Type of motor will depend on the blind/weight.

4Core is usually high voltage, so you'll need an external relay to trigger via a C4 relay - works just fine and genereally inexpensive but keep it in mind.

There are several wired options available, the 4 core you mentioned, as well as a 2 (reverse polarity) and ones that have true dry contacts - and in those there is single contact for pulse, 2 for up/down etc.

C4 can be set to how long it takes to go fully up/down and from there you can use time to do programmed partials, but be sure the limits on the motor are set as well, to prevent the blinds from rolling off the roll or the motor burning out.

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  • 1 year later...
badjesus Community Regular

badjesus

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i am hoping someone can help me here as well. I am having trouble wrapping my brain around the relay controls needed to reverse the polarity for roller shades. 

I have motors that are relay controlled, and are basically just a positive and negative wire. The have a smart chip in them so they know when to stop (up and down). You can program the stop points. 

They way they work though, is if you supply 12v DV (1.2 amp) to them, they go down. When you reverse the polarity, they go up. I keep being told by people, and keep reading that the relays can reverse polarity. Not only can I not get it to work, but I also can't wrap my head around HOW that would work.

Basically I have this to work with:

From the motor (1 positive and 1 negative wire)
From the power adaptor (1 positive and 1 negative wire)
The relay on the controller (NC, NO, and C) I think these are Normally Closed, Normally Open and Common?

I can get the blind to go down, but that is all. I can't get it to back up nor figure out how to wire it so that it can reverse polarity. 

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badjesus Community Regular

badjesus

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Reverse polarity blinds will wire the same as this

http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/actuatorrevpol.gif

 

but instead of lock/unlock it will be up/down

Sorry, that completely lost me.

if I had some standard 12v relays for a car (Those black relays with 5 pins. I think they are called single pole double throw or something like that). I would be able to figure that out. But i am lost when it comes to that diagram and where that relates to NC, C, and NO on the back of the controllers.

The other part too, if that uses two relays, the driver for C4 only seems to allow for one connection to a relay. There are commands though for up and down. How would I tell the driver to use the other relay? Or do I have to add to instances of the driver. one for up, and one for down both using difference relays?

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badjesus Community Regular

badjesus

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Pin 30 is the common. 87a is normally closed. And pin 87 is normally open.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Awesome, thanks for the quick reply! Sorry about my ignorance.

 

but.... So no matter what, it has to use two relays, per motor? :(

I am going to need A LOT of relays! I have 14 motors on the way. Anyone know of a device that can easily simplify this? I know there is the IO expansion for C4 but even with that, I am going to need A LOT more. 

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dogdvr Contributor

dogdvr

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I guess so, and he NEEDs help but someone will come on and read that this guy is a dealer, yet he does not understand a basic relay. Or that if you have a blind that lowers when you apply voltage (i.e. normally closed) then it will open if you remove voltage (i.e. normally open).

 

and badjesus your answer is in this post just figure it out

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badjesus Community Regular

badjesus

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I guess so, and he NEEDs help but someone will come on and read that this guy is a dealer, yet he does not understand a basic relay. Or that if you have a blind that lowers when you apply voltage (i.e. normally closed) then it will open if you remove voltage (i.e. normally open).

 

and badjesus your answer is in this post just figure it out

Wow, just because I have trouble following relay diagrams means I can't ask for help?

LSDave did help me out, and I get it now. I got it working last night.

BTW, just because I WORK for a dealer and have access to Composer pro does not mean I AM a dealer. I don't install, I don't talk to customers, I don't work on people's systems, I don't touch it. 

I always thought this forums was for everyone, which is why there are other dealer specific forums. There are A LOT of DIY'ers on here and a lot of end users. This forum also shows up on GOOGLE a lot. Don't you think that helping me and having this information available will also help other people in the future? (even those that aren't members of this forum) Just because the answer is simple to you does not mean it is simple to everyone. Especially someone who doesn't read wiring diagrams for a living. 

A google search will show you that I am not the only one asking this question. And finding the real answer was hard because of people like you that instead of just NOT replying, or helping like LSDave so graciously did, you just decide to start arrogant arguments like you are somehow omnipotent and clearly narcissistic. LSDave stating "Pin 30 is the common. 87a is normally closed. And pin 87 is normally open." helped A LOT. Half hour on Google did NOT tell me that. 2 seconds of LSDave's time did, and I am very grateful for that!

I was looking through older posts over the last few days and even saw a post where long time members of this forum were suggesting that it has gotten off track. Where it may have become less helpful to people, less about sharing knowledge, and more about stuff like this. Just don't comment if you have nothing productive. Just because you think something is simple or stupid does not mean that others aren't searching for this answer. This forum is about sharing, helping, and growing knowledge not for arrogant comments and telling people to just go figure it out. The reason I posted is because I was having TROUBLE FIGURING IT OUT! it is not like I didn't attempt this first. It is not like I didn't do my reading first. I just can't read delay diagrams, and have trouble understanding the explanations. 

For those looking for the solution I used, I took a temporary solution from LSDave and use the one relay output to 2 automotive type relays. This is allowing me to conserve my controller outputs for now.

What I am going to do after, is use a separate device that will give me a lot more relay outputs that I can control with RS232. Also, EV offers a driver for an appliance called Controller Master 3 (CM3) that can control 6 relays or 3 blinds. It seems to have a pretty sweet driver. So I am trying to track down this device. I was also told about this, that may prove to be very helpful. http://www.control4.com/docs/product/8-channel-relay/dealer-installation-guide/latest/8-channel-relay-installation-guide-rev-a.pdf with just using the generic relay blind driver. 

It seems like no matter what I do, this is going to get a bit messy because of the power requirements and the number of relays. Thankfully I ran cat6 and 16-4 to all windows already during pre-wire.

If anyone is interested in the blinds I am using for now, check out rollertrol.com . The owner has been extremely helpful and when testing these VS mechoshade or just a stand alone Somfy I was extremely impressed for the price! yes, the wiring is going to be a LOT more messy than it would be with Somfy or with Mechoshade but for a DIY solution these are quite amazing so far. 

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badjesus Community Regular

badjesus

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BadJesus, dont take it personally as they treat everyone that way

I have been doing a lot of reading on older forum posts just trying to learn as much as I can.

I have noticed this to be true. I figured I would do a forum search on dogdvr. In 2 pages of results he helped 1 person. Every other comment was just sarcastic, arrogant, or "Contact a dealer" even when other people were already helping. Even on a post about this forum going sideways and hoping it gets back on track to helping and pushing horizons with C4 his response was sarcastic. Guess I just don't understand why you would want to be on this forum if you are just going to insult people, or be counterproductive. 

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Cyknight Grand Master

Cyknight

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Awesome, thanks for the quick reply! Sorry about my ignorance.

 

but.... So no matter what, it has to use two relays, per motor? :(

I am going to need A LOT of relays! I have 14 motors on the way. Anyone know of a device that can easily simplify this? I know there is the IO expansion for C4 but even with that, I am going to need A LOT more. 

 

There's a number of 'devices' that can make this easier. You won't like the price tag on them however. Buying 4 i/o extenders will be considerably cheaper. They'll also take up less space.

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badjesus Community Regular

badjesus

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Is it? Still four of those things, rq bridge, drivers - though it'll be a smaller form factor than i'o though.

I am trying to get pricing to see. I am not sure though, do I need more than 1 RQ bridge? I noticed that the RS232 RQ bridge only seems to have one ouput?

I priced out the IO extenders if I go new... they are pricey! :) I guess they are a good price for what they do, but this is a $1000+ solution. 

I hope to hear back on a cost soon on the Rq's. They look like a cheaper option? lol

I do like that I can bolt them right onto the wall in my wiring room to make them clean. 

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THEORY Rising Star

THEORY

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You would only need a single RQ Bridge for around 20+ controls.  I myself haven't used the one I linked because we typically use the designed UL panels.  There is certain limitations on the RQ Bus and because the part I linked is 4 controls on a board I am guessing you could do around 20 of these on a bus giving over 80 Controls.  We have over 300 running at world bank in Washington DC and it's for sure the way to go.

 

So your options are 4 of the ones I linked and a single RQ Bridge, or get a panel made with the 14 you need and a single RQ Bridge in the panel.  Much cleaner but the panel is a bit of a premium.

 

The savings in not having to mess with the programming and how simple the driver we made sets up is worth it alone if the cost was the same.

 

Let me know if you have issues sourcing.

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badjesus Community Regular

badjesus

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Wow guys, that is awesome! thanks for all the details!

Yeah THEORY, I am def  having issues sourcing but I am in Canada. Can you still help?
I am not going to lie, my budget is SHOT for automation so I may not be able to proceed but I definitely am curious on pricing. Worst case, I will save up. (or sneak them past my wife :) )

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