wyrob2 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Hello, We have just had C4 installed in our house. Generally OK but a few problems to iron out! the most frustrating is the doorbell. In our system design the dealer included the functionality that when the doorbell is pressed, it triggers the EA5 and a WAV file is played through certain zones in the house. We didn't want/need the doorstation cameras etc. The problem is that when the doorbell is pressed, it takes 5-10 seconds for the matrix the the amps to startup, so there is a delay in playing the sound. Often it takes so long that nothing comes out at all. Needless to say that the doorbell is useless. It is frustrating that this wasnt clear when we designed the system, but now we need to find a workaround. Anyone have a solution where we can get instantaneous doorbell sound through our zone speakers, and get around the 'amp warming up' problem. many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 the delay is due to the reason you said, but the problem of nothing coming out is a configuration issue. there is a delay that can be configured in the announcement to let it wait for the amps to warmup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Assuming using c4 dumb amps you can short them out to always stay on then won't have to worry about delay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyrob2 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Many thanks. The key issue is the delay. Does anyone have a software or driver workaround to avoid using the control4 announcement functionality / switching on the amps which could help here. Yes- we have control4 matrix and amps. Can we, for example, introduce another piece of technology to avoid the amps being on all the time. I looked at the advanced chowmain driver but that doesn't appear to avoid this amp problem. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christophers Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 so i have this same issue, since i use denon units. there are a ton of workarounds, C4 amps (as mentioned), etc. but what i did is just put in an Elk doorbell sensor to interface with my c4 unit. this way, it rings my actual doorbell, and then in more remote parts of the house, it uses an announcement, although a tad delayed. another option is to use sonos... you can pass an announcement to a sonos unit where there is minimal delay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Not sure the big deal with leaving the amps on. They're not drawing that much power if they're not active. Not sure why Sonos would be a better option. They're always on too. Gonna scatter play 1's all over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyrob2 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 Many thanks, very useful. So it sounds like the easiest idea is to keep the amps on and somehow change the settings on the announcement agent to remove all delays. (A). How do you set the amps to stay on? I couldn't work that out from the responses and have searched elsewhere on the forums. Our dealer says the new control4 amps will always switch off if no signal (b) is it possible to set the control4 announcement agent for zero delays. So doorbell triggers instant wav file, switches matrix to the right zones/levels and through the always on amps? many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 A) your dealer needs to learn how to use the dealer knowledge base. It's on there. Put a jumper between +5 and IN on the 12v trigger and make sure the switch is set to 12v trigger (b) yes it will fire almost instantly if no delays are set in the agent or programming. I always use when doorbell is released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 8 minutes ago, knowitall said: A) your dealer needs to learn how to use the dealer knowledge base. Or to just read the documentation tab of a driver.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyrob2 Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 Hello. Coming back on this topic, we now have the amps permanently on so the delay is more limited for the doorbell. However the announcement agent is set to turn on certain zones to 70% volume for the doorbell then revert back to the previous volume level when complete. If the zone is currently in use, this seems to work fine. However- if the zone is not in use the volume remains at 70, which means that when you subsequently switch on music it comes blasting out. Is there a c4 function to move zones back to a default value after announcement to avoid this? Thanks I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 You should enable default volume on for audio in the room properties so no matter what level you turn it off at it will come on at 15/20/25 or whatever you deem fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 It's under miscellaneous of the room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Is there a downside to jumpering the amp to be always on? Does it shorten the life of the amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VINCELdUB Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Is there a downside to jumpering the amp to be always on? Does it shorten the life of the amp? IMO technically no. Switching it on and off would wear on elelctronics more than if it were to have consistent power at all times. Happy Automating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VINCELdUB Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 OP mentioned a control4 doorbell. Is this doorbell the DS1 or DS2 door station? For the DS1, you do not need an elk sensor as there is a relay built into the doorstation itself that can be configured to trigger original doorbell. If wired with one. Happy Automating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 2 hours ago, jfh said: Is there a downside to jumpering the amp to be always on? Does it shorten the life of the amp? I'd agree with above, not really. Theoretically, always on can cause more wear to sometimes on, but it depends on how often it turns on and off...I'd just call it a balance. Only argument you could really have is energy usage - a call you'll have to make yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Cyknight said: I'd agree with above, not really. Theoretically, always on can cause more wear to sometimes on, but it depends on how often it turns on and off...I'd just call it a balance. Only argument you could really have is energy usage - a call you'll have to make yourself. I don't mind the extra energy bill if the doorbell rings faster. Im using a 16-AMP3 - where is the 12v trigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, jfh said: I don't mind the extra energy bill if the doorbell rings faster. Im using a 16-AMP3 - where is the 12v trigger? That's the matrix amp - so there's no trigger/always on option (or to be exact, it's always on by default). If your doorbell is slow - I don't think the issue will be the amp in this case. What do you consider slow? Chances are that it's the controller's audio delay. If so, and you're using advanced audio (meaning, not using anything below an HC250/800 controller for audio output), the delay can be adjusted. What delay is wise to use will depend on your setup. Systems that just use a main controller for audio feeds, I've no issue using the minimum (300ms) - if more than one controller is in use in a rack with good networking, 500-750ms is usually fine as well. Note that the default is 1500ms (which should be good for remote controller,lots of controllers and/or wifi controllers to stay in sync) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 I will look at the audio settings. My doorbell announcement delay is about 3 seconds. When the doorbell is pressed, the lights I have programmed come on instantly as does the camera bookmark screen if the TV is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 5 hours ago, jfh said: I will look at the audio settings. My doorbell announcement delay is about 3 seconds. When the doorbell is pressed, the lights I have programmed come on instantly as does the camera bookmark screen if the TV is on. That doesn't sound extremely out of the norm (2-3 is not completely unexpected) - there will always be a small delay, but you should be able to shave that down to 1-1.5 seconds with advanced audio settings as per above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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