ruckus Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Does a switch need to be identified by composer before working as just a plain switch with no programming. I installed one for a gas fireplace tonight and it doesn't light up or do anything. I'd like to make sure the switch is not broken before having my dealer come out to set it up. As always thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 A C4 switch (or dimmer) does not need to be identified for it to function as just a switch. How did you hook the switch up for the fireplace? Does it have power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruckus Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 Well I fix motorcycle for living so I am somewhat handy. Having said that I am no electrician. I hooked green to green, white to white and black to red. I would have no doubt that I got it wrong or messed the switch up. Anyone feel free to tell me I have no idea what I'm doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 You can't necessarily match colors. The switches come with a wiring diagram that should be followed, and you should always use a voltmeter to figure out which wires in your house are hot, neutral, load, ground, etc. Trust me, I learned the hard way, banging my head on the wall late at night trying to install one switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSI Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Be careful with fireplace swithes. Most are low voltage and you can not use a C4 switch. I would suggest leaving the existing switch and connect low voltage wire directly to the fireplace and to the C4 controller relay. BTW: We programmed the remote control # & * buttons to turn the fireplace on and off. We also programmed a time limit in case someone forgets to turn off the fireplace.good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruckus Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 Yeah when I saw the gauge of the wire I thought it might be low voltage. I'll have to install the switch elsewhere. Thanks for the info. I'll keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Many fireplaces are wired with a light gauge wire from the electronically controlled gas valve to a standard wall switch and use low voltage to control the gas valve. I have used a combination of a C4 2 button keypad and a card access relay to control the fireplace in this situation. Remember the C4 2 button can run off of 30 volt DC. All you need to do is to install a C4 2 button in place of the existing switch and power the 2 button with the 30 volt transformer that C4 sells.Take a card access relay and wire it to the low voltage contact in the electronic gas valve.Setup programing to turn on the relay when the 2 button keypad is pressed. Add a gas fireplace to the project and bind the relay of the gas fireplace to the card access relay.If you can run a wire from the fireplace to your controller you can use the a relay from the controller to turn the fireplace on/off and avoid the expense of the card access relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruckus Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 I gave up on doing the fireplace for now. I still have the switch and think I am going to put it in the garage and program a timer since my girlfriend has trouble remembering to turn off the light. Any advise on the wiring. The garage light has two black wires and one bare copper. The switch has a green, black and white. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I gave up on doing the fireplace for now. I still have the switch and think I am going to put it in the garage and program a timer since my girlfriend has trouble remembering to turn off the light. Any advise on the wiring. The garage light has two black wires and one bare copper. The switch has a green, black and white. ThanksSorry, it won't work there either. From your description the garage light is wired as a switch leg and has no neutral (white) wire. C4 switches require a neutral wire. Additionally, C4 switches are not rated for incandescent lighting. A C4 dimmer is compatible with switch leg wiring.Your original post states that you would have your dealer come out to identify the switch after you install it. Perhaps it would be a good idea to have your dealer or a licensed electrician install the switch. There are safety issues that must be considered when installing 110 volt electrical and your dealer or a licensed electrician would be able to get things setup safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruckus Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 Your probably right about the electrician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 ^^Why is a C4 switch not rated for IC lights? I use them all over the place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Because the inrush current of incandescent is much more like a short than a resistive load until the incandescent heats up.Fans / Motors / Fluorescents don't have a huge inrush current.The huge inrush current will tend to pit the contacts of a relay, and can eventually cause the relay's contacts to fuse together, and at that point, you don't have a relay, you have a piece of wire in the shape of a relay.If you keep your incandescent load below about 30-50% the rated current for the switch, it typically is not an issue, but for incandescent loads, you really should use a *dimmer* not a *switch*, since a dimmer uses a triac for switching, not a relay.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I am no electrical expert, but isn't EVERY household application (other than flourescents) an incandescent?EDIT: I guess some track lighting and what not may be LED, but other than that isn't everythign incandescent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 ^^1000 watts? I don't have but 450W on any one switch. What do you suppose inrush I is on that load? At this point, I have them and I'll continue to use them until something happens I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I am no electrical expert, but isn't EVERY household application (other than flourescents) an incandescent?Every household application must not include fans, electronic and magnetic low voltage lighting, LED lighting (bonus points for you), motor control, etc.But yes, most non-Fluorescent household lighting (including halogen) is incandescent, and should typically use a dimmer.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 What do you suppose inrush I is on that load?The filament color temperature (Kelvin) at which the lamp is designed to operate determines the inrush current. A 300'K lamp will have an inrush current about the same as its operating current, but a 2,500'K lamp will draw about 12 times the current when cold.Worst case inrush current for incandescent is around 15 times the 'warmed-up' operating current, so for your 450W circuit, it could *worst case* pull 6750W for a fraction of a second.Whether that's enough to damage the relay contacts, only time will tell.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 So to put that in lamens terms, is six 100W light bulbs in my bathroom okay to work on a swithch, or do I need a dimmer? How about the 9 can lights in my kitchen? I don't like to use dimmers on the can lights because when they are between 20% and about 80% power they buzz.Is there any way to fix the buzz so I can use the dimmer, or is a switch okay on these? I really appreciate you going into detail about "inrush current" and what not but to be honest that is over my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Interesting, good info on the degrees Kelvin impact. Well, this is probably more than most users want to know but is still very good rule-of-thumb guidline for installers. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 ^^Only time I have buzz is when I'm running some of my wall sconces @ 15%. Never a buzz from the cans all the way doen to minimum setting. Check your bulb filament support if they are budget bulbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I thought everyone dimmed can lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 This may be a dumb question, but how do I sck my bulb filament support? The house was completed about 20 months ago and most of the cans are the originals, I don't know if they are cheap or not. The ones I replaced were by FEIT electric, and were fairly inexpensive. Would buying a more expensive bulb eliminate the buzz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 It depends on the construction of the bulb.It's hard to say what causes and resolves the lights buzzing, but I don't have any problem with any of the can lights in my house, although some bare bulbs in fans will cause buzz at certain dim levels.Your best bet is to try some different bulbs. I'm guessing (I haven't used any) that halogen bulbs would be less likely to buzz, since their filament is supported and inside a glass / quartz tube, inside the bulb itself.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Thanks Ryan, I will check it out. I know that most people don't hear it at my house, but I hear it and it drives me crazy. I am a musician and I guess have overly sensative ears. Hell, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Another possibility could be in that the way the lights and swtch were wired. I had the same situation at my house (which was built in the 30's) with six can lights for my kitchen. The switch was wired switch-leg with the power feed coming off of a junction box in the ceiling that also fed 3 or 4 outlets. When I installed the dimmer, every light would come on to the level that I chose but, also had a fairly loud hum/buzz. I ran a dedicated circuit for those lights and don't have that issue anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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