Alarm System for OS3

[cannemi]

So I have recently upgrade to OS 3.1 and my GE NX8 Alarm system will no longer integrate with OS3.  Any suggestions on what to change it out to that will support OS3?  All my zones are hard wired to all the doors, etc.  I assume I have to swap out my panel and all.  Is there not a connector?

 

Thanks

 

 

[chopedogg88]

You can integrate it, you just need the 584e module instead of the 587.

https://www.surveillance-video.com/security-nx-584e.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwoqDtBRD-ARIsAL4pviAGeVNPtF806wu7WPx38a70K7J3tjpW6QqqEyMzhd6FUoXcUuWCzTYaAp1lEALw_wcB

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[brente]

coming from a 587e, the 584e works great with the NX8.  One thing to be aware of is that the 584e requires a NULL modem cable, whereas the 587e uses a straight through cable.

Going from the 587e, you will also end up removing all of your contact sensor bindings from the project as the 584e driver will query the panel/keypad directly and pull all zone/partition information and settings and will not use the separate contact sensor bindings that the 587 driver needed...

 

correction: you don't need to remove your existing contact sensors and can bind them to the 584e driver if you want to use their state to program against

[ERDrPC]

Will this allow better integration? IE Will it report to c4 which zone caused failure to arm, which zone is open if want to use the new weather and voice app to say family room window is open and it will rain in two hours, will it report which alarm code was used to disarm. None of these work currently on 2.10.6

[brente]

On 10/18/2019 at 4:35 PM, ERDrPC said:

Will this allow better integration? IE Will it report to c4 which zone caused failure to arm, which zone is open if want to use the new weather and voice app to say family room window is open and it will rain in two hours, will it report which alarm code was used to disarm. None of these work currently on 2.10.6

Not sure that the integration is any better from the 587e driver to the 584e, but here's some of what I see (may be incomplete):

- when the 584e driver is put into an appropriate Log Level, you can see that the driver has access to all of the panel events/messages and will log/display all the alarm panel events that it sees, BUT not all of these events are exposed outside of the driver

- after the 584e driver queries the panel and adds the zones to the system, you can connect contact sensors (or other) to the 584e driver.  The sensors will show the open/closed state of as reported by the panel.  You can then use the individual sensor state to trigger programming or to query the open/closed state.

- the partition OPEN_ZONE_COUNT variable will indicate the number of zones that are open when arming is attempted.  If zero, then all closed.  if greater than zero, then something is open.

- the "Arm Failed" partition event will be triggered if a zone is open when arming is attempted.  The driver, however, will not report back what zone is open.  You could (manually) query each zone to see which one (or more) are open if this event is triggered.  You could create a programming macro that would add all open zones to a variable, and then use that variable to report open zones.

- the "Disarm Failed" partition event is NOT triggered if an invalid alarm PIN is entered to disarm the alarm.  I'd say this is a BUG in the 584e driver.  As a workaround, you could watch the DISPLAY_TEXT partition variable for a change to the string "Operation Rejected by Panel" which is the error message displayed when an invalid code is entered.

- the alarm arm/disarm panel will allow logging of the arm/disarm event and will report that a PIN was used, but will not display the actual PIN used (it's obscured)

- (per above) if an invalid PIN code is entered, DISPLAY_TEXT partition variable for "Operation Rejected by Panel" which is the error message displayed when an invalid code is entered

- when an alarm is triggered, the DISPLAY_TEXT variable (and panel display) will not report which zone causes the alarm to be triggered.  The "OPEN_ZONE_COUNT" will indicate the number of zones open.  as said above under "Arm Failed" partition event, you could have some code to manually check each zone and store their state in a variable to then report which zones triggered the alarm - could be the same programming macro code so would only have to code it once.  UPDATE: the DISPLAY_TEXT variable does show the zone that caused the alarm, but the value stored in the variable changes very quickly so odds are if you try to display the contents, it won’t show the value as expected - you can reproduce this by using programming to show the value when it changes (e.g., include it in an email or a notification).

- the ALARM_STATE partition variable does not appear to indicate whether an alarm has occurred or not.  BUG.  I'd think that it should, assuming that the variable is used to indicate the state of an alarm - its not documented in the driver so it's purpose is unclear. UPDATE: this variable seems to indicate whether the panel is in an alarm state (set to 1 for true), or not (set to 0 to false)

 

So, while the driver doesn't make it easy to get access to the panel details, you could probably accomplish a lot of what you want with some work (a lot of work) by adding extra programming to the project.  Too bad that the driver isn't more robust to simplify the reporting of the type of information that you are asking for.  No idea if any of the other panel drivers report that information either.

Edited November 10, 2019 by brente
Included some updates based on testing

[ERDrPC]

@brente thanks for the reply. That was helpful. I might work on that zone macro. Problem is that I will have to query it ever 10 min (in the case of a knowing if a window is left open and it's going to rain) so I'm sure it might kill the battery life of the wireless sensors. 

Or I could figure out... if darksky reports a future weather event, run macro to detect what zones are open. Play announcement over speakers and keep running macro every 2 min (to check to see if we have closed the window). If not then reannounce every 6 min. Would need to figure out how to convert the zones open into text string for the audio announcement 

[brente]

@ERDrPCI agree with you that running the programming after an event occurs (e.g., weather alert event) would be the most efficient way to check the zones.

I have an idea about getting the open zone names as you need, but need to find time to mess with it.  Give me a week or so and I'll let you know what I come up with...

[cannemi]

@brenteDo you know which NULL modem cable I need?  I assume F to F would work.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-10-Feet-RS232-Serial-SCNM9FF/dp/B00006B8BJ/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=null+modem+cable&qid=1575297759&sr=8-4

 

 

[brente]

3 hours ago, cannemi said:

@brenteDo you know which NULL modem cable I need?  I assume F to F would work.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-10-Feet-RS232-Serial-SCNM9FF/dp/B00006B8BJ/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=null+modem+cable&qid=1575297759&sr=8-4

 

 

It depends on what cable you have connected to your c4 controller (on my system, I actually have a null modem cable plugged into my controller).

The 584e has a male db9 connector, so at least that side needs a female side.  If you don’t need a cable, you can also go with a null modem adapter that fits in line with the cable.

[cannemi]

female to female it is.  Thank you for clarification

[brente]

Great. Be sure to follow the instructions included with the driver for the panel settings. Reach out if you have any trouble

[cannemi]

@brente  Can this accessory be used with OS 3.11 my dealer is telling me that there is no drivers for this to intergrate into 3.11

 

You can integrate it, you just need the 584e

 

If so how do we do it?

[brente]

On 1/6/2020 at 6:38 AM, cannemi said:

@brente  Can this accessory be used with OS 3.11 my dealer is telling me that there is no drivers for this to intergrate into 3.11

You can integrate it, you just need the 584e

If so how do we do it?

Have your dealer search for the "NX-584 RS-232 Automation Module" driver - that should show up in their Composer Pro.  It is compatible with OS3+

[sweeper154]

My dealer recently upgrade my system from 2.9.x to 3.1.1 and my NX-8E stopped communicating properly. C4 support has suggested we try several cables without success.  My dealer is saying that he is seeing "gibberish" come across on his end. I'm wondering if that might be due to the serial port communications. Is there a suggestions based on the C4 driver as to com settings from the NX-8E panel (i.e. baud rate, binary/ascii, etc)? I looked in the manual for the NX-8E and these can be set. The system has worked for many years without issue and once the upgrade was complete, it broke the com to the panel. I don't think it's a cable issue as C4 support is saying.

[cannemi]

@sweeper154 did you see my original post. Once you move to 3.1 it is no longer supported.  You need to by the 584e automation module.  I originally had same issue

[brente]

49 minutes ago, sweeper154 said:

My dealer recently upgrade my system from 2.9.x to 3.1.1 and my NX-8E stopped communicating properly. C4 support has suggested we try several cables without success.  My dealer is saying that he is seeing "gibberish" come across on his end. I'm wondering if that might be due to the serial port communications. Is there a suggestions based on the C4 driver as to com settings from the NX-8E panel (i.e. baud rate, binary/ascii, etc)? I looked in the manual for the NX-8E and these can be set. The system has worked for many years without issue and once the upgrade was complete, it broke the com to the panel. I don't think it's a cable issue as C4 support is saying.

@sweeper154 - since you have an nx-8e, assuming you’re using the built in 584 functionality? (Instead of the external 587 module).  Ensure that you’re using the 584 driver  per above.

For panel settings, check the driver documentation for the default panel settings to use (which include baud rate, etc) - I believe you can see this from composer HE in the documentation tab for the driver, or your dealer can send to you.

If you were using the 584 driver before upgrading, the driver should still function fine in the latest os3 update.  If settings are right and it’s still not working, then their may be a driver issue on your controller - another user had that problem and c4 support fixed it (hopefully you won’t have to do this though).

[sweeper154]

@cannemi  I have the NX-8E which has the com port built into the board.

@brente  I can't say which driver was being used but the system worked without issue for 8+ years. As soon as the system updated to 3.1, the communication between the NX-8E and my C4 controller stopped. My dealer contacted C4 support and they tried several things including deleting/reinstalling the driver. They had me try different cables. I've sent a request to my dealer to get the com settings and will confirm those.  I think my dealer has contacted C4 support 4 times now and they've not been able to get it working (although they say it should work).

Thanks both for your responses.

[sweeper154]

In case anyone runs into this issue, I found that the cause of the lack of communication between my security panel and the controller was due to the com settings on my NX-8E. We didn't change anything so I'm assuming that the settings in the previous version (2.9.x) may have been different or some how got goofed up.

The serial baud rate was set to 4-38400 while it needed to be 2-9600 as per the driver info.  Once I made the change to the NX-8E, it all started working. We're still having an issue where not all sensors are showing up, so I'll keep working with my dealer to work through that. Getting it them to talk to one another was a big hurdle.

Here are the settings for the NX-8E and the NX-584. These have to be set from the Interlogix keypads or the CaddX DL900 software. Since I have the NX-8E, I have the instructions on how to make the changes on the keypad. If anyone needs those, let me know. 

NX-8E – Is programmed on device 0
Locations and settings of the NX8E interface

207	Serial Port Enabled		1

208	Serial Port Baud Rate 		2(9600 Baud Rate)

209	Home Automation Protocol	On

210	Segment 1			Segment 2
	-2--5678			1-3-----

211	Segment 1			Segment 2
	-2-45678			1-------
	Segment 3			Segment 4
	12------			-2-45678



NX-584 – Is programmed on device 72
Locations and settings of the NX-584 interface

0	Home Automation Protocol	1 - - - - - - -

1	Serial Port Baud Rate		4(9600 Baud Rate)

2	Segment 1			Segment 2
	-2--5678			1-3-----

3	Segment 1			Segment 2
	-2-45678			1-------
	Segment 3			Segment 4
	12------			-2-45678

 

 

 

The support by the members on this forum is fantastic and is much appreciated

 

 

 

[cannemi]

@sweeper154 What a great update thank you. I believe I will have to do the same thing.  My installer is set to come in a couple of days or so.   Can you send over the instructions on the keypad.  Thanks for update!

[sweeper154]

@cannemi  I have no experience with programming the security system but based on some Youtube videos and the documention for the NX-8E, here are the steps that I followed to make the changes.

 

From your keypad.

1	Press  ' *8 '

2	"PLEASE ENTER YOUR CODE" - The default installer code is '9713'. If you don't have that, you'll probably need to contact the vendor who installed the system originally.

3	"ENTER THE DEVICE ADDRESS THEN #" - I think the default is '0' (make sure to hit # after that). '0' worked on mine and it sounds like that's pretty standard.

4	"ENTER LOCATION, THEN #" - Here's where you'll confirm/edit the com settings.
	Enter '207#'  "LOC# 207  SEG# 1" - It should be set to '1' as indicated on the settings I provided above.
		If not, enter '1*'. If it is set to 1, then hit '*' to move on.

5	You'll again be entered location # and you'll move to the next zone 208#
	Enter '208#'  "LOC# 208  SEG#1" - It should be set to '2'.
		If not, enter '2*'. If it is set to 2, then hit '*' to move on.

6	You'll again be entered location # and you'll move to the next zone 209#
	Enter '209#'  "LOC# 209 SEG#1" - It should show '1-------'.
		If not, enter the number that shows up to clear it. As an example, if it read '-2-45-78', hit the 1,2,4,5,7,8 keys to toggle the values.
		If it is set to '1-------', the hit '*' to move on.

7	For location #'s 210 and 211, follow the guide from step 6 above to toggle the required values from my previous post.

After you're done, hit the exit key a few times to exit the programming menu.

 

I've never done any programming on my keypad as it was programmed by my security company many years ago. Please be careful with the changes on the keypad !  Hopefully this helps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[brente]

Attached are the full 584 driver instructions that are included with the  "NX-584 RS-232 Automation Module" driver (the settings that @sweeper154 posted above are included in this documentation) - note that these instructions are also viewable from the Documentation tab for the 584 driver in Composer Pro or Composer HE.  The instructions call out all of the panel/module settings that the driver expects.  Changing the panel settings does require some knowledge - be sure to note current settings before changing in case you run into issues.  You can find instructions on how to change the panel settings in the 584 module instructions or with in the nx8e instructions.

Some things to be aware of:

- the 584 driver reads all of the zone information (number, type, description, etc.) from the panel in several ways: when the driver is first installed, by using the action button, or when the controller is restarted.  You can try the action button to refresh the zone information without restarting the controller.

- if you have the panel settings correct and the zone count shows in composer (pro or HE), but the zone names are not displayed as they are on the keypad, you may need Control4 to fix this on your controller.  It seems as though the driver (and older versions) doesn’t clean itself up completely so leaves data on the controller that can’t be removed by simply deleting the driver and restarting the controller.  I did not have this problem going from the 587 driver to the 584 driver, but  @Scrib ran into this, but I’m not sure exactly what Control4 did (they knew what needed to be done and it was quick).

- if you turn on logging on composer, you should be able to watch the status messages that the driver generates as it processes the zone information read from the panel to aid in troubleshooting.

- after the zone information is read correctly, you will be able to bind sensors to the zones to use the open/closed state for programming.

once everything is up and running, it works well...

documentation.rtf

[cannemi]

Any help would be appreciated,  Trying to figure out how to configure this unit.  Any suggestions?  I am pretty sure I have it configured correctly but I don't know what configs the C4 needs to see my panel.  Lights are flashing for data being received but C4 cannot read anything.  Using the