UK lighting, no neutral. Ideas?

[Waring192]

Just discovered I cannot use switch’s with the C4 hardware but can can use dimmers if correct! I really do not wish to mix C4 and another brand though. I have had a look around and it looks like my other options are:

• Lutron Caseta with Pico switches/dimmers (is it officially available in the UK?)
• Lutron RA2 Select Pico switches/dimmers (again, available in the UK easily?)
• Rako etc but costs start to climb then.

Just looking for a mixture of 1& 2 switches and dimmers per 1 gang (square) faceplate. The faceplate has to be standard square UK size so the Pico devices on/in square faceplates should do the trick.

I don’t fancy Philips Hue, in fact I’m selling a load at the moment. Just looking for wireless switches and dimmers hence looking at Lutron Caseta and RA2 Select (Select is the budget RA2 right?

Cheers

[OceanDad]

You don't state house size/device count etc, but it looks like Caseta will be good enough.  Cheaper and more easily available too. Be sure to buy the Smartbridge Pro, not the regular consumer Smartbridge, otherwise you can't integrate into C4.  Other than that, it's an easy job.  Cheap hardware, free driver, and you can put a Pico anywhere you want.  I'm a big fan of them.

I'm assuming that you are planning on doing all your scenes through C4 - Caseta doesn't handle scenes outside of a single room by itself through physical switches.

[tdougray]

I had exactly the same dilemma and in the end chose native C4 dimmers even in areas where a switch would suffice. I would also check each back box to see there is not a neutral present as i was pleasantly surprised how many did have a neutral at the switch especially the switches for outside lights ( where provisions were made for PIR etc).

Also with C4 dimmers/switches you will have the ability to use them for all aspects of custom programming/ button assignment / double / triple tap functions.

[ILoveC4]

I put every load in the house on a Control4 dimmer/keypad-dimmer/switch/keypad. There’s too much functionality lost with the other solutions, in my opinion. 

[Waring192]

Hmm, I’m still split between the two really!

House isn’t that big really and it’s only a 5 year house I think, maybe slightly longer. It’s 5 bedrooms, sitting room, office, dinning room, kitchen. Two car garage which might become half workshop/half cinema room.

If not the Lutron Caseta, what about the RA2 Select? Or is there not much difference about the max amount of switches etc? I did read that with the Caseta I would need the Pro.

Looking online, there isn’t that much Lutron Caseta stuff for sale in the UK. I thought Amazon would stock it but nada. I quite like the idea of square faceplates with single of double Pico dimmers/switches. Loads cheaper than C4 and I’m not massively fussed over loads of scenes etc.

17 hours ago, OceanDad said:

I'm assuming that you are planning on doing all your scenes through C4 - Caseta doesn't handle scenes outside of a single room by itself through physical switches.

Yes, that’s exactly what I would plan to do if doing a few scenes.  

 

[Waring192]

I have decided to go with the Lutron Caseta but now cannot seem to find the Pro Bridge (for C4 integration) for the UK/Europe? I don’t suppose anyone has a link?

I have found the Pico switches etc but not the bridge?

[OceanDad]

Take a look at this thread :

https://community.smartthings.com/t/lutron-pico-wireless-swiches-uk/163064

Looks like the SmartBridge Pro isn't available in the UK officially.  However, it seems like it should work if you get one sent over from the US.  Standard 5v USB connection, so definitely no power issues.  SmartBridge Pro2 is easily available on Amazon US and plenty of other electrical retail/wholesale sites.

[Waring192]

1 hour ago, OceanDad said:

Take a look at this thread :

https://community.smartthings.com/t/lutron-pico-wireless-swiches-uk/163064

Looks like the SmartBridge Pro isn't available in the UK officially.  However, it seems like it should work if you get one sent over from the US.  Standard 5v USB connection, so definitely no power issues.  SmartBridge Pro2 is easily available on Amazon US and plenty of other electrical retail/wholesale sites.

Cheers fella, will take a read of that thread now. 

Just had a read now and is this kinda what you meant: 

Quote

 I just checked my Lutron Smart Bridge Pro2’s power supply and it does indeed support 120/240VAC 50/60Hz. So it would only require a simple adapter to use in the UK.

I take it that the Lutron Smart Bridge Pro 2 works with Caseta and the Pico switches/dimmers?

Edit: Just read that it does and it’s only $97 for the bridge!:

Link

[OceanDad]

Yes, either use a UK-US plug adapter, or just use a UK 5v micro USB power supply.  The hub only draws 300mA, and the US power supply is only rated at 550mA.

If you get really stuck, I can probably send you a Smartbridge Pro from my US Amazon account and you can PayPal me back.  I'm curious to see if everything works out for you, as I have a UK friend asking a similar question at the moment.

There don't seem to be any RF frequency issues with getting Pico/Smartbridge Pro to work together in the UK, but it would be at your risk.

[Waring192]

31 minutes ago, OceanDad said:

Yes, either use a UK-US plug adapter, or just use a UK 5v micro USB power supply.  The hub only draws 300mA, and the US power supply is only rated at 550mA.

If you get really stuck, I can probably send you a Smartbridge Pro from my US Amazon account and you can PayPal me back.  I'm curious to see if everything works out for you, as I have a UK friend asking a similar question at the moment.

There don't seem to be any RF frequency issues with getting Pico/Smartbridge Pro to work together in the UK, but it would be at your risk.

I shouldn’t get stuck really but what you mentioned sounds perfect, is there much difference between the 1 and 2 Pro?

So it’s just a case of programming the Lutron Caseta with the Pro bridge then swapping the faceplates and Pico switches/dimmers and then adding to getting my C4 dealer friend to add the Lutron Caseta (pre programmed) into the C4 setup?

[Waring192]

Just to add, you can get UK style (square) faceplates for the Pico switches right?

[OceanDad]

Yes, the square wall plates for Pico are shown in the RA2 Select brochure on the Lutron UK website.

Setup is easy - connect Smartbridge Pro to your LAN, and set up individual lights, shades,  fans, Pico keypads using the Caseta app.  Then use the Lutron ID's from the integration report tab in the app in Composer Pro to make connections for Control4 against the loads/keypads etc.  The drivers that you will need in Composer are all free in the C4 database.  Maybe I have been lucky, but in 2 years I have never had a single glitch with any of mine - which is more than I can say for lots of other stuff in this project.

Just remember to disable any control from the Lutron app side and do all switching/scenes from the side.  The Lutron app will automatically make some connections between switches and loads that you will need to undo otherwise you'll have some duplication/unexpected results.

I don't remember all the differences between SBP 1 and SBP 2, but I think the 2 has more compatibility with Apple Home and some Lutron shades.  Probably worth it if you have intentions much beyond a few lighting loads etc.

[Waring192]

Just now, OceanDad said:

Yes, the square wall plates for Pico are shown in the RA2 Select brochure on the Lutron UK website.

Setup is easy - connect Smartbridge Pro to your LAN, and set up individual lights, shades,  fans, Pico keypads using the Caseta app.  Then use the Lutron ID's from the integration report tab in the app in Composer Pro to make connections for Control4 against the loads/keypads etc.  The drivers that you will need in Composer are all free in the C4 database.  Maybe I have been lucky, but in 2 years I have never had a single glitch with any of mine - which is more than I can say for lots of other stuff in this project.

Just remember to disable any control from the Lutron app side and do all switching/scenes from the side.  The Lutron app will automatically make some connections between switches and loads that you will need to undo otherwise you'll have some duplication/unexpected results.

I don't remember all the differences between SBP 1 and SBP 2, but I think the 2 has more compatibility with Apple Home and some Lutron shades.  Probably worth it if you have intentions much beyond a few lighting loads etc.

Perfect, thank you very much for the detailed information.

If I wanted to add a dimmer to the mix it would be a inline 240v one wouldn't it or does the Caseta setup not allow dimmers?

Im not fussed about the Apple Home really (although I would love C4 to use the HomePod as a speaker) so the Pro 1 would be fine. Just looking for a suitable place to purchase a bridge from. This one would work fine right:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lutron-L-BDGPRO2-WH-Caseta-Wireless-Smart-Bridge-PRO/264495527755?epid=14028311056&hash=item3d9529774b:g:V5wAAOSwBIVdoLx2

[OceanDad]

This is where you may have hit the fatal problem.  Caseta in the US has cheap hardwired dimmer switches to fit a standard US wallbox.  it doesn't look like there is a UK/European equivalent.  The only wallbox switch from the US that seems to handle 240v is not a dimmer, it won't fit a UK wallbox, and isn't EU certified.

[Waring192]

1 minute ago, OceanDad said:

This is where you may have hit the fatal problem.  Caseta in the US has cheap hardwired dimmer switches to fit a standard US wallbox.  it doesn't look like there is a UK/European equivalent.  The only wallbox switch from the US that seems to handle 240v is not a dimmer, it won't fit a UK wallbox, and isn't EU certified.

Hmm, slightly confused...would I need RA2 Select then so I can use the inline dimmers?

Any other ideas so I could have a few rooms dimmable using Lutron?

[OceanDad]

It looks like in the UK you would have to use RA2 Select with their inline dimmers/switches.  These are meant to be wired into the ceiling void.  Doesn't look like there are any wallbox hardwired switches or dimmers at all in Europe.  Caseta isn't available, and RA2 Select only has inline dimmers and switches.  Weird, but I only just realized as I was looking through the European site.  Here in the US, Caseta and RA2 Select have a ton of options.

[Waring192]

Yes your right regarding using RA2 Select. Price has jumped a little bit also. The inline dimmers could be placed in the ceiling void like you said but the parts for RA2 Select are quite available in the UK:

• Lutron RA2 Select Main Processor: £175
• Lutron RA2 Select In-line Dimmer: £84
• Lutron Pico's: Depends

Do you need to buy the Lutron In-line Switch for the RA2 Select? If so then the price massively jumps up. I was hoping that only the dimmer required the in-line part?

If I do need a in-line switch for RA2 select then I might be better off going Rako as I can use my trade discount as I am a Elan Home Systems dealer and can get Rako at trade. 

[OceanDad]

You have to have an RF switch of some sort, otherwise there is nothing for the Pico--->Main repeater to communicate with.  All that the Pico is doing is issuing an RF instruction to the Repeater for it to issue an RF instruction to a hardwired switch or dimmer.  The Pico cannot operate as a switch by itself.  The only switch I see available in Europe is the inline one.  I had no idea that you don't have the choice of wallbox switches and dimmers that we have here in the US.

Sorry if I got your hopes up !