EA-5 controller, AMS & PAMP for each floor

[Dinushan Paranavithana]

For a house already being built, due to certain limitations, I need to avoid pulling speaker cables from the bottom floor to top floor. So is it recommended to have a EA-5 controller, AMS and PAMP in each floor getting connected to the same IP network? What would be the disadvantages of having a setup like this (decentralizing)? The EA-5 controller in the bottom floor would act as the main controller.

[Tokead]

I use the Triad One for the rooms where I didn’t initially run speaker wire to. I have EA1’s and C4ZR2IR. don’t know why you’d want more than one EA5


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[SMHarman]

Cost. You could also put a HC800 or EA3 in the other floor locations depending on the number if audio sources each floor needed.

 

You can pick up an HC800 for under $100 these days and it has multiple analog and digital outputs.

 

Potentially you could have the HC800 to PAmp 1:1

 

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[Crustyloafer]

The main issue with de-centralising with the AMS/PAMP solution is that you need audio sources at each of those locations too, so either an EA-3 or EA-5 at each AMS/PAMP location depending on how many streams the client needs/wants. This obviously would add significantly to the costs.

As suggested already, it may be just as cost effective to use Triad Ones for each non-centralised zone, as they can pull their own dedicated audio stream and could be located individually in or near each speaker zone lessening the speaker cable runs required for each.

That said, if the client has the budget for an EA-5 at each AMS/PAMP location then go for it, the AMS/PAMP is a great combination and one of my favourite bits of kit they have launched over the last year or two.

[Dinushan Paranavithana]

11 hours ago, Tokead said:

I use the Triad One for the rooms where I didn’t initially run speaker wire to. I have EA1’s and C4ZR2IR. don’t know why you’d want more than one EA5


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To handle lights, lighting scenes, sensors, curtains and more. The lights will be decentralized as well. 

[Tokead]

To handle lights, lighting scenes, sensors, curtains and more. The lights will be decentralized as well. 

You only need one controller for that. The lights build the mesh.


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[Dinushan Paranavithana]

Just now, Tokead said:

You only need one controller for that. The lights build the mesh.


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hi @Tokead, @SMHarman & @Crustyloafer

Thanks for the quick replies.

Yes but the problem that I have is the number of audio zones in the ground floor and top floor. 14 audio zones for ground floor and 13 on the top floor. The speaker wires would have a 100m run length from the bottom floor PAMP to top floor In-ceiling speaker points. We might have to go for 10 AWG or 12AWG gauges. But this an apartment which is already built. The customer is going to occupy the 34th (bottom) and 35th (top) floor. The building constructors aren't allowing for large core cuts on concrete beams. We don't have gypsum partitions anywhere to simply pass the cables. We have limited space to pull cables from bottom floor to top floor. 

For lights, we are going for recessed ceiling lights. We need to run 100+ network cables for lights and more network cables for data points. So thought of just descentralizing the top floor and bottom floor. 

We also need a minimum of four audio streams in each floor or even more than that if possible. (Different audio tracks in different rooms) That's the reason to go for 2 X EA-5. 

[Dinushan Paranavithana]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xdjfyf224i0qny5/MultiroomMusicCenVsDecenCropped.jpg?dl=0

Hi @Tokead, @SMHarman, @Crustyloafer

I have just sketched my idea of setting up Multi-room Audio for this project. The link to the image is given above.

My other question is, by setting up according to this way, will I be able to access devices like pen drive, Bluesound vault 2i & etc connected to the EA-5 on the bottom floor, from the EA-5 on the top floor to play music in top floor audio zones?

What would be the technical limitations by doing so?

[Crustyloafer]

1 hour ago, Dinushan Paranavithana said:

hi @Tokead, @SMHarman & @Crustyloafer

Thanks for the quick replies.

Yes but the problem that I have is the number of audio zones in the ground floor and top floor. 14 audio zones for ground floor and 13 on the top floor. The speaker wires would have a 100m run length from the bottom floor PAMP to top floor In-ceiling speaker points. We might have to go for 10 AWG or 12AWG gauges. But this an apartment which is already built. The customer is going to occupy the 34th (bottom) and 35th (top) floor. The building constructors aren't allowing for large core cuts on concrete beams. We don't have gypsum partitions anywhere to simply pass the cables. We have limited space to pull cables from bottom floor to top floor. 

For lights, we are going for recessed ceiling lights. We need to run 100+ network cables for lights and more network cables for data points. So thought of just descentralizing the top floor and bottom floor. 

We also need a minimum of four audio streams in each floor or even more than that if possible. (Different audio tracks in different rooms) That's the reason to go for 2 X EA-5. 

That all makes sense in this scenario for the audio side of things and should work just fine. For any rooms/zones that would be difficult to wire for even to a central location on her same floor do consider using a Triad One locally for that zone as they also have the advantage that they can pull their own dedicated stream too.

If you require more than 4 audio streams per floor, then it would definitely be worth considering doing with just Triad Ones only as they each can create their own stream and would work out more cost effective to get 8 streams. For example in the UK prices would work out as follows:

2x EA-5, 1x AMS8, 1x PAMP8 = £5585 + VAT

8x Triad One, 4x Triad One Rack Mount Kit = £4412 + VAT

Regarding the lighting, are you doing panellised lighting?

Why the need for 100+ network cables for lights? Surely you only need 1 network cable for each dimmer/relay module and even then they will be next to each other and so can all be connected to a single network switch or if using the new V2 modules they even have 2 port switch built into each of them and so can be daisy chained to each other. 100+ network cables for lighting suggests over 800 lighting circuits which cannot be true. 

The alternative is to use keypad dimmers/switches which can be retrofitted in place of the existing switches and will require very little in the way of additional cabling at all.

[Crustyloafer]

1 hour ago, Dinushan Paranavithana said:

My other question is, by setting up according to this way, will I be able to access devices like pen drive, Bluesound vault 2i & etc connected to the EA-5 on the bottom floor, from the EA-5 on the top floor to play music in top floor audio zones?

What would be the technical limitations by doing so?

This would work just fine. The USB drive can be connected to any controller and the music stored on it will be available to stream in all zones.

Likewise, the NAS or Bluesound Vault can be anywhere on the network and all zones will be able to stream the content stored on it.

[Dinushan Paranavithana]

2 hours ago, Crustyloafer said:

That all makes sense in this scenario for the audio side of things and should work just fine. For any rooms/zones that would be difficult to wire for even to a central location on her same floor do consider using a Triad One locally for that zone as they also have the advantage that they can pull their own dedicated stream too.

If you require more than 4 audio streams per floor, then it would definitely be worth considering doing with just Triad Ones only as they each can create their own stream and would work out more cost effective to get 8 streams. For example in the UK prices would work out as follows:

2x EA-5, 1x AMS8, 1x PAMP8 = £5585 + VAT

8x Triad One, 4x Triad One Rack Mount Kit = £4412 + VAT

Regarding the lighting, are you doing panellised lighting?

Why the need for 100+ network cables for lights? Surely you only need 1 network cable for each dimmer/relay module and even then they will be next to each other and so can all be connected to a single network switch or if using the new V2 modules they even have 2 port switch built into each of them and so can be daisy chained to each other. 100+ network cables for lighting suggests over 800 lighting circuits which cannot be true. 

The alternative is to use keypad dimmers/switches which can be retrofitted in place of the existing switches and will require very little in the way of additional cabling at all.

Hi @Crustyloafer

Thanks a lot for your time.

I need to use the RS232 ports of EA-5 as well. There will be so many touchscreens and a lot of sensors. So I don't want the system to lag.

So I guess it's method 1 vs method 2 right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Method 1

//Top Floor (12 Audio Zones)
1 X EA-5, 1 X TS-AMS24, 1 X TS-PAMP8-100, 1 X TS-PAMP4-100        

//Bottom Floor (13 Audio Zones)
1 X EA-5, 1 X TS-AMS24, 2 X TS-PAMP8-100   

Or according to the way you suggested..

Method 2

//Top Floor (12 Audio Zones)
12 X TS-SAMP1-100

//Bottom Floor (13 Audio Zones)
1 X EA-5, 13 X TS-SAMP1-100

--------------------------------------------------------------
For Lighting we have decided to go with RGB lighting from Colorbeam (https://www.colorbeamlighting.com/). For each individual light control combination, we need to lay a network cable. So for the entire project just for lights, its around 102 network cables (Because of 102 individually controllable light points). Lights are entirely controlled with low voltage. They have their own dmx drivers and panels, similar to C4 centralized lighting.

[SMHarman]

Hi [mention=138562]Crustyloafer[/mention]

Thanks a lot for your time.

I need to use the RS232 ports of EA-5 as well. There will be so many touchscreens and a lot of sensors. So I don't want the system to lag.

So I guess it's method 1 vs method 2 right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Method 1

//Top Floor (12 Audio Zones)

1 X EA-5, 1 X TS-AMS24, 1 X TS-PAMP8-100, 1 X TS-PAMP4-100        

//Bottom Floor (13 Audio Zones)

1 X EA-5, 1 X TS-AMS24, 2 X TS-PAMP8-100   

Or according to the way you suggested..

Method 2

//Top Floor (12 Audio Zones)

12 X TS-SAMP1-100

 

//Bottom Floor (13 Audio Zones)

1 X EA-5, 13 X TS-SAMP1-100

--------------------------------------------------------------

For Lighting we have decided to go with RGB lighting from Colorbeam (https://www.colorbeamlighting.com/). For each individual light control combination, we need to lay a network cable. So for the entire project just for lights, its around 102 network cables (Because of 102 individually controllable light points). Lights are entirely controlled with low voltage. They have their own dmx drivers and panels, similar to C4 centralized lighting.

So an EA5 per floor and a 24 zone triad matrix and a couple of 8 zone triad amp make sense. Bi amp some of the bigger rooms to use all amps in the amp. Especially as you can run those cables. All speaker pairs back to a rack on each floor.

 

More audio zones with another EA or until it's depreciated an HC800 in each of those racks. YOU probably have a spare or two lying around. Also gives some more serial and contacts and relays.

 

Seems like you can run a CAT between floors to keep it all in sync. And a spare. And fiber.

 

On the DMX have you done DMX before? You don't home run anything. It all daisy chains in serial. Light one to light two... To light 101 etc.

 

Similarly the power for each fixture is likely locally sourced. Seems like you are wanting way too much cable in this solution.

 

You'll also need another cat or DMX cable between the floors to take the DMX com line from the controller to the other floors circuit.

 

No room with 7.2.4 (or less) Home Theater? Even the main family room?

 

Consider fiber and CAT between the floors and redundancy / failover on those switches.

 

Light switches should be C4 wireless keypads to build a strong zigbee mesh. Or wireless switches. Both wire to traditional HV in the room that the contractor is already putting in place.

 

[Dinushan Paranavithana]

Hi @SMHarman

This is the setup provided by Colorbeam. Please advise whether I should go for a better system.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/avnp3gjoqsg967d/Enclosure1.pdf?dl=0

I'm going to put Dolby Atmos in two rooms. Either it's going to be a 7.2.4 or 9.2.4. The AVRs will be placed in the respective rooms.

In a situation where I need to go for 4 subwoofers, I should go for rackamps right?

[SMHarman]

Hi [mention=134442]SMHarman[/mention]
This is the setup provided by Colorbeam. Please advise whether I should go for a better system.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/avnp3gjoqsg967d/Enclosure1.pdf?dl=0
I'm going to put Dolby Atmos in two rooms. Either it's going to be a 7.2.4 or 9.2.4. The AVRs will be placed in the respective rooms.
In a situation where I need to go for 4 subwoofers, I should go for rackamps right?

That link is broken. Or not public.

[Dinushan Paranavithana]

On 1/14/2020 at 6:48 PM, SMHarman said:

On 1/14/2020 at 10:36 AM, Dinushan Paranavithana said:

Hi [mention=134442]SMHarman[/mention]
This is the setup provided by Colorbeam. Please advise whether I should go for a better system.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/avnp3gjoqsg967d/Enclosure1.pdf?dl=0
I'm going to put Dolby Atmos in two rooms. Either it's going to be a 7.2.4 or 9.2.4. The AVRs will be placed in the respective rooms.
In a situation where I need to go for 4 subwoofers, I should go for rackamps right?

That link is broken. Or not public.

Hi @SMHarman

how about this link.

https://ibb.co/Jk6WKgR

[SMHarman]

Hi [mention=134442]SMHarman[/mention]
how about this link.
https://ibb.co/Jk6WKgR

Ah ok so a DMX solution with every light fitting home run to the panel.

Yeah that's a lot of cable.

The coloronix version works differently work 120/240 in each room to each fitting and a CAT 5 that daisy chains from the controller to each fitting.

Less cable. Both work.

[Dinushan Paranavithana]

On 1/17/2020 at 2:27 AM, SMHarman said:

Ah ok so a DMX solution with every light fitting home run to the panel.

Yeah that's a lot of cable.

The coloronix version works differently work 120/240 in each room to each fitting and a CAT 5 that daisy chains from the controller to each fitting.

Less cable. Both work.

Hi @SMHarman

I appreciate if you could share a diagram to get the entire idea about colornix. 

Thank You.

[SMHarman]

Hi @SMHarman
I appreciate if you could share a diagram to get the entire idea about colornix. 
Thank You.

C4 wireless keypads. Local high voltage.

Coloronix fixtures. Local high voltage.

DMX driver in rack. Powered in rack.

Daisy chain of cat5 from coloronix fixture to fixture.