joecheech Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Currently running my system off of an EA3. The OSD/Nav is on my family room. Want to have OSD on Master Bedroom as well. I want camera access, lights and shades, and security system (when they get around to adding it back to OSD). How do I accomplish this without losing family room Nav? Add EA-1? Will this muck up my existing infrastructure? Other solutions? Thanks in advance for your responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Adding an EA-1 will do the trick. The downside to an EA-1 is that the only audio output is via HDMI, so it isn't a great option if you want audio from the controller as well. It is also pretty expensive as you need a remote as well. What is it that you like about the OSD as compared to using a phone or tablet? Most of my TVs had OSD capability via HC-250s (I am still on 2.10) and I almost never use it as I use my phone or iPad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecheech Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 Just personal preference - we don't bring mobile devices into the bedroom and would prefer taking advantage of a larger screen that will already be there (potentially The Samsung Frame). On the audio issue - I'm already in Sonos Purgatory so I don't think the limited audio output would be a problem. Actually have an extra Connect Amp sitting around waiting for this MB Reno project. Finally, I have a second SR-260 already so would just need to buy the controller. Its an investment, for sure. Would there be other benefits of adding the EA1? Stronger mesh, more zigbee devices, access to dry contacts? Also want to make sure the EA1 doesn't screw up any of my existing devices... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cart Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I would recommend definitely adding an EA-1 behind the TV and have your dealer separate out the Zigbee Servers so now you will have 2 zigbee servers (I would only do this step if you have a number of zigbee devices. Control4 recommends no more than 70 zigbee devices on one mesh. If you are close to that number, then add that second server.) I would talk to your dealer as they are the ones who can guide you in the right direction. Also there is no negative to adding another controller. It will only speed up your system (either director or zigbee) if programmed correctly. joecheech 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 The EA-1 doesn't have any dry contacts. It only outputs HDMI, IR and serial. There is no reason why an additional controller should cause issues, many C4 systems have many controllers - one at each TV. joecheech and Cart 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecheech Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 Thanks fellas, I'll speak to my Dealer on this one to make sure we set it up correctly. I have 33 devices on my EA3 so still have some bandwidth in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSTRONG Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I have an EA5 in the bsement rack and 1 Ea1 behind 5 TV's thoughout the home. We really like the On screen Navigator display on the TVs Especially if you have Ip cameras, now you can see these cameras on all of your TV's Cart and joecheech 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecheech Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 6 hours ago, JSTRONG said: Ip cameras, now you can see these That’s big for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 23 hours ago, joecheech said: Thanks fellas, I'll speak to my Dealer on this one to make sure we set it up correctly. I have 33 devices on my EA3 so still have some bandwidth in that regard. There is also a poe version of the EA1 now. To help eliminate one more cord being behind the tv. Keep in mind the EA1 will have no positive effect on performance for the EA3 other than potentially being another ZAP. If its going to be in a cabinet or behind the tv would be worth get the c4-AK-3m as well to have the antenna in the best possible position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 13 hours ago, joecheech said: That’s big for us. I love this feature on my tvs and have many events programmed to bring up specific cameras on certain events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Why do you need an antenna if you have an ethernet connection, especially a POE, other than if it is acting as a ZAP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecheech Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Matt Lowe said: would be worth get the c4-AK-3m Would probably get this later on if I end up activating the ZAP, good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSTRONG Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 hours ago, zaphod said: Why do you need an antenna if you have an ethernet connection, especially a POE, other than if it is acting as a ZAP? hes talking about the Zigbee extender antenna. One more thing.. Control4 has been saying not to do ZAP anymore. Just simply create seperate Zigbee servers and when identifying devices , choose the closest EA controller joecheech and Cart 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 19 hours ago, JSTRONG said: hes talking about the Zigbee extender antenna. One more thing.. Control4 has been saying not to do ZAP anymore. Just simply create seperate Zigbee servers and when identifying devices , choose the closest EA controller problem with this is if you have devices you want to move around the house they will not switch servers. If you have a good strong network and zigbee network it should be an issues to run ZAPs I have only setup separate servers when they have more than 70 devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 22 hours ago, zaphod said: Why do you need an antenna if you have an ethernet connection, especially a POE, other than if it is acting as a ZAP? I have never used the antenna for wifi but it could if you had issues, POE can be used with out network, but the poe ea1 does not have wifi so this is not applicable. the antenna would simply be for zigbee performance if it going to be placed behind a tv or inside of a cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 I am trying to understand how the Zigbee network fits into everything. If you have a EA-3 as the primary Zigbee controller and have an EA-1 then is the Zigbee used by default in an EA-1? If not by default then under what circumstances would you use it as a ZAP or and additional Zigbee server? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cart Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Control4 recommends to not use ZAP servers anymore. You would just create completely separate Zigbee Server on each new controller. Example: A 10000sqft home needs multiple zigbee servers as 1) they most likely have more than 70 devices, and 2) the strength of the zigbee network decreases the further away you go from that controller. In a project, we used an EA-5 to run just director in the basement rack. Not running zigbee at all, just a dedicated director to speed up the system. Then we added EA-1 behind TV's for OSD and of course zigbee mesh. In spots that had weak signals, adding CA-1 fixes that. Zigbee needs to be setup correctly otherwise your whole system is bogged down. The correct way is multiple zigbee servers spread across the house covering every sqft similar to a wifi network. JSTRONG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecheech Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 Good info, thanks for sharing. Feels like my only real benefit from the additional EA1 is the NAV on the Master TV. I’m OK with that. Not a huge location, 3,000 square foot house with strong mesh through my 30+ devices. Not at risk of maxing out in the near term as 95% of light switches in the home have been converted to C4. Really only the bathrooms are not integrated and that would consume about 10-12 devices if I ever decided to switch those over. It’s reassuring that I can have the second mesh network activated if plans change. Planning on locating EA1 in a closet vs behind TV so might not need antenna extender, should I activate second mesh. Great thread, thanks for all the commentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 32 minutes ago, Cart said: 2) the strength of the zigbee network decreases the further away you go from that controller. In a project, we used an EA-5 to run just director in the basement rack. Not running zigbee at all, just a dedicated director to speed up the system. Then we added EA-1 behind TV's for OSD and of course zigbee mesh. In spots that had weak signals, adding CA-1 fixes that. Zigbee needs to be setup correctly otherwise your whole system is bogged down. The correct way is multiple zigbee servers spread across the house covering every sqft similar to a wifi network. How does the Zigbee mesh fit into all of this? If said 10,000 ft^2 has dimmers and keypads in each room doesn't that strengthen the Zigbee network? Or do you still need another controller (aside from the number of devices per controller)? Sorry if it seems like I am being a jerk, I am just trying to understand how the Zigbee network works. Cart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecheech Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 As Former Galactic President, you have every right to ask! Cart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cart Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 30 minutes ago, zaphod said: How does the Zigbee mesh fit into all of this? If said 10,000 ft^2 has dimmers and keypads in each room doesn't that strengthen the Zigbee network? Or do you still need another controller (aside from the number of devices per controller)? Sorry if it seems like I am being a jerk, I am just trying to understand how the Zigbee network works. Yes and No. More devices does increase the zigbee network but only up to a certain point. Each zigbee device talks to each other via hops. So if you have your EA-3 and you have 3 light switches all increasing in distance for example, and you tell control4 you want to turn off Light switch 3; The EA-3 would then find the best possible route to get to Light Switch 3. Since there is only 3 lights and 1 path, EA-3 tells Light Switch 1 to tell Light Switch 2 to tell Light Switch 3 "turn off". Then Light Switch 3 tells Light Switch 2 to tell Light Switch 1 to tell EA-3 "Light 3 is turned off". Each hop takes a few ms and therefor the more devices you add (and typically they will start to get further away from the Zigbee Server) will slow the basic functions like lights down. Now the reason we say more switches are better for a zigbee network, is because it allows for more ROUTES of hops and expands the mesh to a certain point. Meaning the EA-3 can look at all the devices in its mesh and decide what is the fastest and best route to take in order to have the least hops and fastest communication. Adding zigbee devices to increase the range and distance of the mesh does work but like I said, at some point it will just be too many hops and too much for 1 mesh. The further away you go, the more hops you need to get there which means you will start to see a slowdown of zigbee as devices get further away. Hopefully that made sense ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Makes perfect sense, thanks. I guess it is essentially the same as using a wifi mesh system where you have a wireless backhaul to the primary router. You may have to go hop to hop over wifi which will increase latency, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecheech Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 Related question while this thread is still active: I have a FIOS box in my rack that services the existing Master TV. Currently using my spare SR-260 to control this box using an IR bud that’s connected to my EA3. Will I have to run the IR bud to the new EA1 or can I keep it as is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSTRONG Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 it Doesn’t matter. You can connect the ir to any controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSTRONG Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 I didn’t really answer your question. You can keep it connected to the ea3. Cart and joecheech 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.