Pool motor control

[Matt Lowe]

This is a question more for a qualified electrician so if anyone has any suggestion I'am all ears. I have an older pool motor i would like to use an extra switch to control. The c4 switch is only good up to 1/2 horse power motor from what i can remember. What i need to find is a relay that can act as a middle man for the power and take care of the motor load and allow the c4 switch to switch it with 120v. There is also a old style rotary timer and flip switch to manual turn it on. Any suggestions or wiring on how to do this?

 

my setup looks similar to this except i only have one timer

[JR2]

Turnkey solution - ELK 9200 and an C4 switch

DIY solution:

C4 switch 

re-purpose your enclosure  or a new enclosure

Packard C240B Packard Contactor 2 Pole 40 Amps 120 Coil 
or

Packard C340B 3 Pole 40 Amp Contactor 120 Volt Coil 

Perform wiring as per ELK 9200 pdf.

If you choose to go the DIY route be sure to purchase an contactor that is 120 volt coil.
 

 

9200-instructions.pdf

[JR2]

Here is a visual / conceptual how to wire.

 

All modern pool controllers are contactors controlled by some sort of smart time clock.

[zaphod]

@JR2 - why use a switch rather than a relay?

I am going to do something like this as well for my pool.   For several years I have a similar setup for a small 120V water heater that is in my pool cabana.  But I just have a no name contactor like the one shown above.

For a pool with a heater don't you need two relays/switches to drive it?  One would control the heater and the second relay would control the pool pump.  When you turn off the heater you should alwyas run the pump for at least five minutes to cool down the heater.  Ideally I would think that you would also want to prevent the pump from switching off if the heater is on.

I was going to drive it from an HC800.

My electrician was starting to install a large contactor like the one shown in the diagram for post 3, but he never finished the job before the pool closed down for the season. 

[Matt Lowe]

12 hours ago, JR2 said:

Here is a visual / conceptual how to wire.

 

All modern pool controllers are contactors controlled by some sort of smart time clock.

so if its an old dial syle like what i have likely there is no contactor?

that you for the diagram now i just need to make it happen.

[JR2]

10 hours ago, Matt Lowe said:

so if its an old dial syle like what i have likely there is no contactor?

that you for the diagram now i just need to make it happen.

Correct, no contactor/relay.   Just a big 40A switch triggered by an mechanical clock.

Once you get this going.. you will start using it for other things.. dumb pool heaters, electric home water heaters,  circulation pumps, basement pumps....

On commercial applications I use a contactor/relay with an smart switch/building automation system to run Air compressors, electric water heaters and air chillers. 

With electric suppliers now rolling out time of use rates, it makes sense to automate these systems,  shutting down unused systems during lunch breaks, or during time based rate changes.

[brucecampbell]

On 2/26/2020 at 3:11 AM, zaphod said:

@JR2 - why use a switch rather than a relay?

I am going to do something like this as well for my pool.   For several years I have a similar setup for a small 120V water heater that is in my pool cabana.  But I just have a no name contactor like the one shown above.

For a pool with a heater don't you need two relays/switches to drive it?  One would control the heater and the second relay would control the pool pump.  When you turn off the heater you should alwyas run the pump for at least five minutes to cool down the heater.  Ideally I would think that you would also want to prevent the pump from switching off if the heater is on.

I was going to drive it from an HC800.

My electrician was starting to install a large contactor like the one shown in the diagram for post 3, but he never finished the job before the pool closed down for the season. 

A 12V relay would be a good option if;
  you can run LV cable from the controller to the pool controller,
  Or you can install a Z2IO at this location
  And you are happy to only have control from C4 (or can rig another LV input on a switch to give a manual override.)

I'd assume Matt wants a physical switch so manual on/off is an option without having to remember to take a phone out to turn off the pumps when maintenance is required. - or having to unplug.

I have never added my pool pump to C4, but I have a second pump in the same location running a waterfall into the pool.
This second pump is controlled by a relay - but I have two runs of 6 core security cable running back to the rack - so I have local switching using the C4 contacts to run the relay for the pump and pool lights etc..

 

[zaphod]

OK, that makes a lot of sense!  I have a six button and I use that as a "switch."

[JR2]

On 2/27/2020 at 2:32 PM, brucecampbell said:

A 12V relay would be a good option if;
  you can run LV cable from the controller to the pool controller,
  Or you can install a Z2IO at this location
  And you are happy to only have control from C4 (or can rig another LV input on a switch to give a manual override

 

Good idea with Z2IO and the use of an 12V triggered relay/contactor

[Dave w]

i'm a bit late to this party, but here are my pool controls for my pump and heater using lutron RA2 switches. Same would apply for c4 switches with simple 120v relays in a waterproof enclosure.  They are not connected right now for some pool renovations but worked solid for several years. 

  

[JR2]

On 6/19/2020 at 4:57 PM, Dave w said:

here are my pool controls for my pump and heater using lutron RA2 switches. Same would apply for c4 switches with simple 120v relays in a waterproof enclosure

Exactly