Setting up multiple network switches

[C4CA]

Wonder what the network pros recommend in setting up multiple network switches? Do you just daisy chain them? Cascade? Use uplink ports?

using araknis 210 and 110 series switches

[Andrew luecke]

Firstly, unless you know exactly what you're doing I would avoid using unmanaged switches at all.. 

It depends.. Generally, you want to minimise the hops, so you'd normally plug everything directly into a single switch (star configuration), and try to maximise the devices connected to that switch to minimise the hops.

You'd normally use the uplink ports if the switches have them, and most people would use Link Aggregation (including myself). In very large installs, it can make sense to also interconnect the switches amongst themselves too, so if 1 link fails, STP fixes the issue. If they're all in a single rack though, you normally wouldn't

 

[mstafford388]

Think you may have mixed up your words there.  Unless you know what you're doing avoid using managed switches.  Probably best for people who don't know networking to not start messing with managed switches. 

[Cyknight]

General setup:

Router single uplink to CORE switch single switch is best in most cases, though there are exceptions, ie camera dedicated switches, media over IP switches.

CORE switch feeds all possible devices plus other switches if needed (preferably using SFP ports for 10g or more, LAG is an alternate) - do not daisy chain switches (note that I'm not talking about a local small switches that feeds 2-3 game systems that are on one at a time and only have one available line, I don't count that as a part of a regular switch setup).

 

As always, exceptions apply - for example systems that encompass multiple buildings or by wiring limitations by necessity have more than one 'hub' of networking. In those types of cases, it's likely best to have a dedicated albeit smaller SFP heavy, huge backbone core switch that does NOTHING but feed other switches.here are switches out there that have a dozen sfp/sfp+/qsfp combination of slots)

[Andrew luecke]

1 hour ago, mstafford388 said:

Think you may have mixed up your words there.  Unless you know what you're doing avoid using managed switches.  Probably best for people who don't know networking to not start messing with managed switches. 

Not at all. You can't afford to be using unmanaged unless you know exactly what you're doing in most av/large jobs

 I define managed switches as any switch with a management interface (it doesn't have to be l3, and that's how manufacturers have mostly defined it for the past few years).

Firstly almost every new smart or managed switch I've installed in the last few years has had defaults which are as good or better than unmanaged (and I've installed a huge range of switches including D-Link, unifi, the Cisco small business ones, TP-Link, Netgear). The only exceptions were:

1. The D-Link dgs-1210 series. Initially these shipped with EEE enabled as default, but the default was changed in later firmware after initial release to be disabled

2. Switches which ship in a secure state and have everything disabled

Without some kind of management, you don't have full network visibility, you don't have tools like stp or rogue dhcp server protection to protect the network and you don't have LAG. When the client says "I can't connect to my nas", you cant even reliability say if it's the network or nas causing issues. Troubleshooting becomes more complex

If you have intermittent connectivity issues with a  device, it generally ends up cheaper to pull out the unmanaged switch and replace with a smart switch for testing. I wasted 2 days once at a job once trying to isolate a network issue, until we ripped out the unmanaged switches, shoved some smart switches in place, and the problem was identified within seconds. 

Again, whilst I've never set up moip, as I recall, it is recommended to be using managed switches anyway.

In fact, in a previous life, we actually sold unifi switches. And I later noticed a lot of installers weren't even configuring them, but the fact they shipped with rstp enabled was resolving issues (but a lot of the sparkles installing them probably didn't know why, they just thought the other switches sucked. Generally this happened on sonos setups).

Which managed switches have you come across which have been worse preconfigured (out of curiosity)? Because in my experience, it's the opposite experience 

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, Andrew luecke said:

Which managed switches have you come across which have been worse preconfigured (out of curiosity)? Because in my experience, it's the opposite experience 

It depends on how far back the experience goes: but in general a L2 switch for the past decade+ should be fine - issue starts to arrive mostly when the 'uninitiated' start messing with settings due to youtube videos on how to set up a switch the best way I barely consider these even managed switches anyway.

True L3 rarely gets used unless by someone who knows what they're doing anyway (simply due to their price tag) and those are the ones that tend to come in locked state or unconfigured and can't be just 'dropped in' (though that is less frequent as well).

Unmanaged switches over 5 ports (ie desktop switches to connect your pc and your local printer or the earlier mentioned hookup 3 game systems that are used one at a time)  in this day and age shouldn't even really exist......

[Andrew luecke]

Honestly, even some of those 5 port unmanaged switches shouldn't have existed..

We came across a few as I recall which seemed to have issues with certain things regardless (I think broadcasts/multicast in some cases) and I recall we ended up basically having to throw them out or workaround the issues (which again, is another issue with Unmanaged switches.. They can't really be firmware upgraded)

And yeah, a lot of the really old managed gear was hot garbage. Buggy interfaces, buggy GUI settings, bad defaults, etc. But, it hasn't been that way for years now (unless its a AliExpress switch maybe)

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, Andrew luecke said:

Honestly, even some of those 5 port unmanaged switches shouldn't have existed..

LOL true, DLink green comes to mind, the white netgear switches and several others: but a basic Dlink 'enterprise' series version, even netgear's prosafe line for these fringe cases usually weren't a concern (again I'll reiterate I'm talking about fringe devices that you're just supplying internet to, no control)