sji Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Hi -We are 1 month into our new system and I need some advice for an audio delay issue.Our setup is a central rack with cable boxes, DVD, sonos, appleTV, HC1000, HC300, Audio matrix and HDMI matrix. We have local in ceiling speakers in 8 rooms, and HD TV in 4 rooms.The issue is if I have the TV on in a room, when i select the same cable box as the source for the in ceiling speakers the audio comes out 1/4 second ahead of the audio/video from the TV set creating an echo.So if I have a ball game on the TV and select it to play over the ouse audio, the other rooms are a fraction ahead of the TV and there is an echo, or if the bedroom TV is on and the bathroom ceiling speaker is on to the same TV station there is an echo.I know the problem is because a delay is introduced by the processing for video at the TV itself. But I am looking for a solution.The simplest solution would be if the C4 Audio Matrix switcher had a built in delay feature, but it doesn't from what I've read on the forums.Is there a reasonable-cost solution for this? Are their audio delay devices through which I can feed all the audio sources (3 cable boxes, DVDs, sonos, apple tv) before they connect to the C4 audio matrix so i can introduce the necessary 100 ms delay?Thanks for any advice.SJI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cylon147 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 need more detail.what is company and the model number of the TV?HDMI matrix company and Model number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sji Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 HiI will get the model numbers but they are new samsung smart led tvs and its a control4 matrix. But I'm not sure that info makes a difference. I had a similar problem with my old home theater system and the issue is that all led or dlp etc hd tvs have some video processing delays. This is corrected with lip sync features in the tv itself to match the audio. And our old home theater system had a programmable audio delay as well. So in this case all the tvs we have will have some processing delay, which will be matched internally for the internal audio. But the issue is the audio distributed from the control4 audio matrix is not delayed and has no programmable feature to do so. So I need a way to introduce a 100 ms audio delay. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avittech Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Do you have digital feeding the tv and analog audio feeding the matrix? You can try using the digital out of the tv into the matrix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sji Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 Thanks avitechYour suggestion is exactly how I solved this problem in our pre-control4 setup. I had the cable box feed the tv directly, let the tv do all it's digital processing and utilize it's internal lip-sync correction, and then have the audio-out from the tv feed the stereo.But in our current control4 setup, all the cable boxes are in the rack in the basement and are distributed into the audio and video matrix. The tv audio is fine through the tv since the internal correction compensates for the processing delay, but the issue is the audio through the house speaker system has no delay and is too fast. If there was some way to introduce an audio delay into the c4 audio matrix that would solve the problem, but there isn't so I need some workaround to introduce a delay. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superikey Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Send the audio from the tv back down to the amp. Use a composite to cat5 converters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Send the audio from the tv back down to the amp. Use a composite to cat5 converters.+1...this is easy to do if you have a CAT5 available.I agree that it would be nice for the Control4 Audio Matrix to have the ability to introduce an audio delay, but as you have discovered it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sji Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Thanks Dan and Superikey-Sending the sound back from the TV post-processing wont work for this application. As described in more detail above, this was what I did in my pre-control4 set up. However, now I have it set up with distributed audio/video with all Cable boxes in the basement rack so any tv in the house can watch or listen to any cable box. If I run the sound back from a tv post-processing, then I am limited by only having the sound from that 1 TV be available. If that TV is off but Im watching another TV, no sound is available as a source for the in ceiling speakers in the house.After searching hi and low on google, i found this analog audio delay device.http://www.hallresearch.com/page/AD-340Its quite pricey for this application at $295 - would have been much better if the control4 audio matrix included this feature.But I can at least choose to put this in-line between the primary cable box audio-out and the audio matrix switcher input so at least for that cable box the sound can be delayed to match the TV.Unless anyone has a better solution....I'm all ears.THanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Thanks Dan and Superikey-Sending the sound back from the TV post-processing wont work for this application. As described in more detail above, this was what I did in my pre-control4 set up. However, now I have it set up with distributed audio/video with all Cable boxes in the basement rack so any tv in the house can watch or listen to any cable box. If I run the sound back from a tv post-processing, then I am limited by only having the sound from that 1 TV be available. If that TV is off but Im watching another TV, no sound is available as a source for the in ceiling speakers in the house.After searching hi and low on google, i found this analog audio delay device.http://www.hallresearch.com/page/AD-340Its quite pricey for this application at $295 - would have been much better if the control4 audio matrix included this feature.But I can at least choose to put this in-line between the primary cable box audio-out and the audio matrix switcher input so at least for that cable box the sound can be delayed to match the TV.Unless anyone has a better solution....I'm all ears.THanksHow many TV's do you have? I was thinking of running audio from each TV back to the rack and taking some time to program it correctly. That's what I would do in my home. I have distributed audio and video. You just need to make sure you have enough inputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tilimil Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 (edited) Why are you using the tv speakers? I have a very similar setup and I just use dist audio for all my sound. Edited September 15, 2011 by tilimil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sji Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 Tillmil - Some rooms (bedroom, office) dont have ceiling speakers on the distributed audio system. But even if it did, that would generally cause the same problem. The sound is faster than the video already and even in places where I would use the distributed audio, the video processing time would make the TV delayed from audio. Dan - we have 5 TVs. Sounds like it might be more complicated than its worth to have all the TVs run back sound to the rack. Since multiple TVs can be on to the same cable box or different cable boxes, wed have to program so we know not just which DVR we are listening to (now I choose "listen" and select the DVR) but also which TV to use.Since 90% of the time this will be with only the main DVR, I will try to put the delay only on that audio output in line with the audio matrix switcher input.Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob21 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 On 9/14/2011 at 12:52 AM, sji said: Thanks Dan and Superikey- Sending the sound back from the TV post-processing wont work for this application. As described in more detail above, this was what I did in my pre-control4 set up. However, now I have it set up with distributed audio/video with all Cable boxes in the basement rack so any tv in the house can watch or listen to any cable box. If I run the sound back from a tv post-processing, then I am limited by only having the sound from that 1 TV be available. If that TV is off but Im watching another TV, no sound is available as a source for the in ceiling speakers in the house. After searching hi and low on google, i found this analog audio delay device. http://www.hallresearch.com/page/AD-340 Its quite pricey for this application at $295 - would have been much better if the control4 audio matrix included this feature. But I can at least choose to put this in-line between the primary cable box audio-out and the audio matrix switcher input so at least for that cable box the sound can be delayed to match the TV. Unless anyone has a better solution....I'm all ears. THanks Hey Sji I am having the same problem in my house and I have a very similar setup to you. Did the audio delay device fix the problem and if so do you recommend the one you linked above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dw886 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Hey Sji I am having the same problem in my house and I have a very similar setup to you. Did the audio delay device fix the problem and if so do you recommend the one you linked above?I had the same issue about a year ago. I added a 50ms delay to the ceiling speakers and it got everything in sync. I used one of these on the ceiling speaker input https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/889746-REG/Sescom_SES_A_V_SYNC_A_V_Lip_Sync_Corrector.htmlSent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob21 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 10 hours ago, dw886 said: I had the same issue about a year ago. I added a 50ms delay to the ceiling speakers and it got everything in sync. I used one of these on the ceiling speaker input https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/889746-REG/Sescom_SES_A_V_SYNC_A_V_Lip_Sync_Corrector.html Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk Thank you dw886, I think I'm going to give it a shot on my system. I know that for what you sent me, you can only adjust the delay by 50ms intervals. Is there any delay still or is 50ms perfect for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dw886 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Thank you dw886, I think I'm going to give it a shot on my system. I know that for what you sent me, you can only adjust the delay by 50ms intervals. Is there any delay still or is 50ms perfect for you?At 50ms you can't tell the difference between the TV and the ceiling speakers. In my setup it's an exercise room, and there's a tv/soundbar as well as ceiling speakers. TV is used and spoken audio was tough to understand because of the "echo". Adding in the delay completely got rid of the issue... Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob21 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 43 minutes ago, dw886 said: At 50ms you can't tell the difference between the TV and the ceiling speakers. In my setup it's an exercise room, and there's a tv/soundbar as well as ceiling speakers. TV is used and spoken audio was tough to understand because of the "echo". Adding in the delay completely got rid of the issue... Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk Thank you I’m going to try it. I’ll post here when I do to let everyone know if it worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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