DLite

55 minutes ago, timelinex said:

Those have native drivers or aftermarket?

Z2IO is a native C4 product with a native driver:  https://www.control4.com/docs/product/z2io/data-sheet/english/latest//z2io-data-sheet-rev-c.pdf

The C4 IO extender or controller options would only be if you already have one close by; otherwise, they are overkill.

23 minutes ago, Amr said:

Fully supported with c4, 720p resolution is fine, most of my cams all types are used around house, all integrate to c4, various drivers free and paid are available

Out of curiosity, do you use an NVR?

We currently have a mix of DropCams and Nest Cams for indoor and outdoor video.  While the video quality is meh, the whole family loves the convenience of the Nest app:  it is ridiculously simple and reliable to see a real-time feed or watch historical footage from any web browser or phone.  I'm wondering if there are other brands that would provide similar ease of access with better image quality and with the C4 integration that we don't currently have.  Another requirement is wifi connectivity, as we can't run ethernet to a number of the current camera locations.  Finally, this is less critical, but I'd prefer to rely on cloud storage only, without having to set up and maintain an NVR.  

I was looking at Amcrest.  It seems to have good wifi camera options and Control4 drivers, and "Amcrest Cloud" looks like it should give us the same kind of real-time and historical access via their app or via a browser and without needing an NVR.  Does anyone have thoughts on the ease of access/viewing, C4 compatibility, or other factors related to the Amcrest gear?

Thanks!

10 hours ago, C4 User said:

It’s not clear to me if the engraving changed or if the new buttons used a different font. Either way, I would ask your dealer to get new buttons. 

Done! Thanks for the confirmation.

The interesting thing is that I had two other engraved switches that were delivered just a month earlier, and they were perfectly fine and absolutely identical to all the other engraved switches in the house. I'm wondering if I just got a bad batch.

No, it's new.  To be clear, the one on the right is a brand-new (non-dimming) switch with a newly engraved faceplate.  The one on the left is an old non-dimming switch with an old, engraved faceplate.
 

Just now, msgreenf said:

Is this an old dimmer that you are just engravin? 

No, it's new.  To be clear, the one on the right is a brand-new (non-dimming) switch with a newly engraved faceplate.  The one on the left is an old non-dimming switch with an old, engraved faceplate.

4 hours ago, msgreenf said:

These are part of the engravings for years and improve the light quality. I would not recommend removing them. 

Good to know. I will not mess with that then.

I did finally find a photo angle that illustrates the issue I'm seeing in real life.  Check out this photo, and note that the new switch is on the right and the old one is on the left.  Notice that the status LED is brighter on the newer (righthand) switch, but the backlit lettering is really crummy looking.  This is in spite of the right switch following the ambient sensor on the left, and both switches using the same LED/backlight profile.  Is something defective here, or am I overlooking a configuration element?  I'm seeing the same thing  across the board with this crop of new switches and engraved faceplates -- about 10 of them -- so I am wondering if I am just misconfiguring them.

11 hours ago, DLite said:

I recently had a dozen switch rockers re-engraved with different labels.  Compared side by side to my older engraved switches, they look identical when the backlight is off.  But, I swear that the new engravings looks worse than the old ones when backlights are on.  I copied the same backlight and LED settings from the old switches to, but that didn't help. It's almost as if the engraving on the new switches didn't go all the way through for some portions of the letters.  Weirdly, when I take pictures of the backlit switches side by side, the photos look identical, even though to my naked eye, the difference is clear.

I'm wondering if this was installation error by my electrician, a bad batch, or just my imagination.  As far as installation error goes, the engraved switches didn't come with any installation instructions, and my electrician seemed to think the installation process was obvious, but I'm wondering if he failed to take off some kind of a protective coating or something? Has anybody else experienced this issue with newer engravings?  

Or, maybe I am just going crazy....

I notice that the new engraved switches have a white plastic piece that sits behind the engraved label, in the rear of the switch -- see the attached picture.  I don't remember this being present on the old engraved switches, and I'm wondering if it cuts out some of the backlighting from flowing through to the engraved label. Is this piece part of a new design feature, or has it always been like this? And, if it is new, is it possible to remove this piece without damaging the switch?

9 hours ago, DLite said:

I'm having trouble programming the LED colors on a 2-button keypad.

The background is that I have a dimmer switch configured as a 2-button keypad.  It is bound to the top button of a 5-button keypad, which in turn controls the lighting load at that keypad.  The 2-button keypad is configured to have its LEDs follow the connection, and the top button of the 5-button keypad is configured to have its LED follow the load.  The LEDs work as intended:  when the lighting load turns on, the keypad LED moves to the on position, and vice-versa.

However, I want to switch the 2-button keypad LED color to red when the security system is armed, but I can't figure out how to control the LED colors on the 2-button keypad.  I gather that my inability to change the LED color has something to do with the  fact that the 5-button keypad LED follows the load, and the 2-button keypad follows its connection.  But, I'm no sure what I would need to change in order to get control over the color.  Would I need to change the LED behavior to "programmed" and then write code to manage the LEDs somehow?   I'm not entirely sure how to proceed here. Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks a lot.

I'll answer my own question, in case it helps someone else.

I had to set the keypad LEDs to "programmed" instead of of "follow connection."  And I then had to control the LED behavior programmatically. It was cumbersome but not difficult.  I created variables to track the power state of the relevant lights and then change the LEDs when those variables change. I'm glad I only had 3 lighting loads to program, but otherwise it works fine.

I'm having trouble programming the LED colors on a 2-button keypad.

The background is that I have a dimmer switch configured as a 2-button keypad.  It is bound to the top button of a 5-button keypad, which in turn controls the lighting load at that keypad.  The 2-button keypad is configured to have its LEDs follow the connection, and the top button of the 5-button keypad is configured to have its LED follow the load.  The LEDs work as intended:  when the lighting load turns on, the keypad LED moves to the on position, and vice-versa.

However, I want to switch the 2-button keypad LED color to red when the security system is armed, but I can't figure out how to control the LED colors on the 2-button keypad.  I gather that my inability to change the LED color has something to do with the  fact that the 5-button keypad LED follows the load, and the 2-button keypad follows its connection.  But, I'm no sure what I would need to change in order to get control over the color.  Would I need to change the LED behavior to "programmed" and then write code to manage the LEDs somehow?   I'm not entirely sure how to proceed here. Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks a lot.

I recently had a dozen switch rockers re-engraved with different labels.  Compared side by side to my older engraved switches, they look identical when the backlight is off.  But, I swear that the new engravings looks worse than the old ones when backlights are on.  I copied the same backlight and LED settings from the old switches to, but that didn't help. It's almost as if the engraving on the new switches didn't go all the way through for some portions of the letters.  Weirdly, when I take pictures of the backlit switches side by side, the photos look identical, even though to my naked eye, the difference is clear.

I'm wondering if this was installation error by my electrician, a bad batch, or just my imagination.  As far as installation error goes, the engraved switches didn't come with any installation instructions, and my electrician seemed to think the installation process was obvious, but I'm wondering if he failed to take off some kind of a protective coating or something? Has anybody else experienced this issue with newer engravings?  

Or, maybe I am just going crazy....

10 minutes ago, booch said:

Ah -- I'm tracking -- hadn't occurred to me to use the COM ports in that way. And yeah, that is a little bit simpler, ha.

Updated diagram below to save you from Visio. Note that I listed the through-Shelly switch wiring as optional, as it'd allow for button tracking/integration in the driver (which I'll want to do when I go to reference this at some point.)

Feel like my relay game is a lot stronger now!

Very cool.  Will any DPDT relay module -- say, on Amazon -- do the trick here, or are there specific ones I should be looking at?

3 hours ago, Cyknight said:

shade, awning, window the principals are the same.

No, the issue I see more is that the shelly can't even DO the reverse polarity in and of itself to begin with. It's got two relays, but you're not energizing one line or another with a shared common/neutral, you actually need to 'make' 1 side hot and 'make' the other side neutral, and reverse that action to go the other way.

So not only is there the issue of shorting if you parallel the wires to the switch: there's still the actual control itself.

Looking at the pictures you put up, I can't quite tell how the wiring is likely to be. Which makes it problematic to say how you could approach it.

Perhaps you can answer this clearly though.

First the meanwell piece you posted is NOT the motor: it's a power adapter.

So, is the wiring like this:

IGNORE the line voltage 110/220 for now

Is there a low voltage wire from the power adapter to the switch, then a wire to the window (motor)?

Or is it power supply to switch, then back to powersupply location and on to the window (motor)?

From there we can maybe figure out what options there are.

 

Sorry for the confusion. Yes, the motor is at the window itself, which is a good 25-30 feet off the floor -- hence, I wasn't able to snap a picture.

I should have a full set of pictures later this summer, at which point we are scheduled to have the windows removed and reinstalled (for reasons unrelated to the motors).  Thanks very much for all the advice here.  Hopefully I can prevail upon the good folks in this forum to take a look at the details this summer and help me think through a smarter way to design the motorization and integration.

9 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Somfy and Motion do offer numerous motor options and adapters but I couldn't begin to say if it would be a feasible option for your blinds.

As for the reverse polarity, the right way of doing that with relays isn't super hard, but you need two dual throw relays - ie two relays with a common and both an NO and NC.

 

Basic wiring schematic for that is + to NO and - to NC on the relays, then com actually goes to the motor. This is safe in that at worst you're connecting both + or both - and on DC that means no voltage is applied to the motor.

This is simple to do with a standard C4 controller relay, but a lot more difficult with most small format wireless relays: I couldn't honestly tell you I know of one that you could but behind a switch.

 

For the blind control, what confuses me a bit is WHERE the DC adapter is - is that installed at the blind itself, with 110v at the blind? How much 'room' is up there?

I think it sound like this though:

You have 110v at the blind. The DC supply is mounted at said blind, then a wire is run back and forth from the DC unit to the switch location then back up to the blind.

If so, and there's room to hid say a surface mount single gang or perhaps double gang electrical box, you could possible install a single DPDT relay, a shelly 2 or similar and use the two shelly outputs to control the the external DPDT (it'll take a wiring diagram to explain the how of it).

 

From there - it may be possible to ADD a dual sensor input device (unsure what say a shelly has, but C4 has their own option and there are others as well). That sensor device could then be used to sense when the existing switch's buttons are pressed, in turn telling C4 to control the actual blind again.

 

 

This ends up being a LOT of tinkering however. Nothing against that as such, but you'll have to judge for yourself if that still seems worth it.

Thanks, @Cyknight. Just to be clear, this is for windows, not blinds.  The two windows in question are awning windows that are hinged at the top and opens out from the bottom.  Each window has a DC motor installed, with wiring running about 15 feet from that motor to the window itself and wiring running about 5 feet from the motor to a wall switch.  
 

If I am understanding you correctly, we would need input sensors so that manual switch activation results in C4 controlling the window. And, effectively, the actual control of the window would be exclusively through C4.

Am I right though that all these issues go away if I get rid of the manual switch and maybe replace it with a C4 keypad that is bound to the Shelly relay? Or are there additional complexities still to navigate?

2 hours ago, booch said:

The simultaneous-use short risk is a good point with the parallel approach, as you're right in that it wouldn't be a true DPDT. (Why I'm only a nights/weekends hacker, ha.)

I just pulled up the Shelly schematics and realized there's another issue -- unsure the 2.5 can do the bi-directional/DPDT mode when DC powered. Not sure who makes (native) bidirectional DC relays for C4, unfortunatly.

Two independent Shelly Plus 1s could do the parallel approach, but as you said, it's imperfect/carries risk. Fuses/breakers could cover the risk/edge case, but would be a bit janky.

I am not averse to replacing the motors. Is there an option that would integrate more easily?

2 hours ago, Cyknight said:

One small note that I do want to make here: If you keep the original switches, the system will not be able to track the state of the blinds properly. That shouldn't be a huge issue for automation in this case as there will be dedicated relays for up and down.

A somewhat bigger concern is that there's the possibility of both the switch AND the system sending voltage to the blind. If in that case one sends up and the other sends down.....well that would be a short, a possible fire hazard and more.

 

I strongly suggest you plan to blank the switch, and/or get an alternative to replace them with that runs through the system.

 

Also....CAN a shelly plus 2 handle this? I though that was a dual relay with a shared neutral - that won't work in this case as you need to reverse polarity.

Ok, that sounds concerning.  What would be an alternative switch that I could use that would run through C4?  Would a C4 low-voltage switch work?

25 minutes ago, SpencerT said:

Controlled by this single switch? Or separate switches? A Shelly per switch. 

They are controlled by separate switches, one for each motor, and one for each window.

So, I think I get it: I need two Shelly Plus 2pm devices, which get installed behind the two switches. Thanks!

27 minutes ago, SpencerT said:

Nah, 2 motors tied to one 24v power supply (wired by a 9 year old). No offense to 9 year olds.

@booch called it. Shelly plus 2pm.

Thanks a lot.

Just to be clear, there are two different motors, one for each window.  So, does that mean I would need two Shelly plus 2pm devices, one for each motor/window?

13 hours ago, C4 User said:

Can you open the switch box and give us a pic of the wires in the box?

Thanks, all.  Attached is the picture of the switch.  The grey-sleeved pair of wires from the left do indeed run down to the switch.

And, @booch, you are right that the switch has three positions.  The "up" position causes the window to open. The "middle" position has no effect. The "down" position causes the window to close.  

@Elvis, if I understand your question correctly, the switch operates more like a light switch.  E.g., if you put the switch in the up position, the window will start to open, but if you put it back into neutral before it is done opening, the window will stop moving.  

1 hour ago, SpencerT said:

That's the AC to DC power supply (24vdc 150w) for the motor(s).

What does the black sleeved pair of wires on the left connect to?

I can’t tell exactly, because the wires run inside the wall. However, they seem to be headed towards the wall-mounted switch, rather than the window. Would that make sense?

20 minutes ago, C4 User said:

What voltage are the paddle switches?

Hmmm. I may not be smart enough to answer that question accurately.

The motor itself is this model: https://www.meanwell-web.com/en-gb/ac-dc-enclosed-power-supply-output-24vdc-at-6-3a-sp--150--24.

And, I've attached a picture of the back panel of the motor, where everything connects.  

Does this help answer the voltage question, or do I need to get more information?

We have a couple of awning windows mounted very high in a hallway. As a result of their position, they are opened and closed via two small motors, each of which are directly connected to wall-mounted paddle switches.

I'd love to be able to integrate them into C4, if possible. E.g., it would be nice to have them close automatically when we arm the security system, etc.  What might be our options for integration?

Thanks

1 minute ago, Elvis said:

Seems like I remember putting a Delay in code in Composer is a bad idea. Like a Delay of 15 minutes -- going to freeze up the controller?

Was considering using this in a motion event to delay turning the lights off. If I should avoid the Delay in code, what's the approved solution?

The alternative is to start (or restart) a 15-minute timer and then turn the lights off when the timer expires. 

Looking for one NYCE door/window contact sensor -- either new or used. 

We have a CardAccess relay and sensor integrated with our garage door and LiftMaster motor. It was installed about 6 years ago, and it's worked fine ever since.  

Recently, the LiftMaster motor died. We are getting a new motor installed this week -- a Marantec.  I am wondering if the wiring from the existing CardAccess Z2IO is simple enough that I could just have the garage door installer connect it to the new Marantec motor, without an additional visit from my dealer.  

It looked like the Z2IO was just connected to the same positive and negative terminals on the garage door motor as the LiftMaster wall remote.  So, I was thinking it would be pretty simple to remove them from the old LiftMaster motor and just connect them to the Marantec.  Am I crazy and/or missing a more complex step in reconnecting to a new motor?

Thanks!