VIS Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 All, I have read a decent amount on this forum and speaking with a few different local dealers. I would like to know if you were to start all over your self and/or for a client, what products would you recommend that integrates well with C4. I am going to provide what my research has uncovered for Pro's and CON's. I would like for you to confirm if you agree. Then I will list the areas of automation I would like with C4 and would like to hear your opinion on what products in those categories integrates well with C4 with minior issues if using a distributor that knows what they are doing. Pro's Integrates with almost everything, A/V, shades, Lights, security, intercom on one interface C4 thermostat Lighting hardware and control Great for distributed matrix video/audio Localized audio/video Fireplace Doors Security System Garage Doors Morterized curtains/drapes Chime Video Doorbell (also seen as con) DS2 Mini (also seen as con) C4 stability Voice Integration with Google and Alexa Physical light switches can be engraved SR-260 great remote CON's Neeo Remote Camera integration Intercom/doorbell (also seen as pro) control from mobile is multiple app solution Camera and NVR app is slow DS2 Mini (also seen as pro) Different brand of NVR and/or cameras Intercom app 4 gang with C4 dimmers may not fit and overheat All in costs expensive No voice control or voice passthorugh on c4 remotes No integrated geo-fencing Audio hardware over priced C4 not security camera friendly and displays lower resolution and has a lot of issues here What brand of products would you recommend for the following automation areas with C4? Garage Door (via wifi, open, closed, announce via audio for both), automation to close at certain time of day Garage Entry Door and Front Door - Automatically locks/unlocks with geofencing, keypad to enter via garage entry door if you do not have phone. Thermostat - builder providing ecobee (will place two sensors in ranch home) SumpPump sensor - alert via app, tv audio Hot Water leak sensor - alert via app, tv, audio Window break sensor (wifi) and alert via app, tv, audio Fireplace Blinds/Shades (wifi) Motion sensor (wifi, audio during sleeping hours or when away) Motion dection (wifi for master bath to turn on lights on C4 dimmer) Video Door Bell - hardwired, door bell rings, have it come up almost instantaneously on app, tv if on, echo show, via audio speakers. Video Cameras - 10 of which will be hardwired. NVR or NAS? Type of camera's. Record during night time, daytime only if motion, able to set area for motion, night vision, ability to turn on light outside or audio, audio announcement via audio speakers, shown on tv, app, etc. No Intercom Integrate with voice control - Alexa I appreciate your insight and help and looking forward to the communication around this. Hopefully, this will help others as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 11 hours ago, VIS said: All, I have read a decent amount on this forum and speaking with a few different local dealers. I would like to know if you were to start all over your self and/or for a client, what products would you recommend that integrates well with C4. I am going to provide what my research has uncovered for Pro's and CON's. I would like for you to confirm if you agree. Then I will list the areas of automation I would like with C4 and would like to hear your opinion on what products in those categories integrates well with C4 with minior issues if using a distributor that knows what they are doing. Pro's Integrates with almost everything, A/V, shades, Lights, security, intercom on one interface C4 thermostat Lighting hardware and control Great for distributed matrix video/audio Localized audio/video Fireplace Doors Security System Garage Doors Morterized curtains/drapes Chime Video Doorbell (also seen as con) DS2 Mini (also seen as con) C4 stability Voice Integration with Google and Alexa Physical light switches can be engraved SR-260 great remote CON's Neeo Remote Camera integration Intercom/doorbell (also seen as pro) control from mobile is multiple app solution Camera and NVR app is slow DS2 Mini (also seen as pro) Different brand of NVR and/or cameras Intercom app 4 gang with C4 dimmers may not fit and overheat All in costs expensive No voice control or voice passthorugh on c4 remotes No integrated geo-fencing Audio hardware over priced C4 not security camera friendly and displays lower resolution and has a lot of issues here What brand of products would you recommend for the following automation areas with C4? Garage Door (via wifi, open, closed, announce via audio for both), automation to close at certain time of day -Recommend you hard wire it into your C4 controller or a Z2IO then you will have full C4 integration. Note MyQ doors have weird security which prevents this. Search the forum there are brands that can hard wire. Or if have MyQ door you can solder to a remote and use that. That's what I do works flawlessly. Garage Entry Door and Front Door - Automatically locks/unlocks with geofencing, keypad to enter via garage entry door if you do not have phone.-Can do geofencing using If this then that (IFTTT) driver for C4. Get a Yale or Kwikset C4 Zigbee lock. Thermostat - builder providing ecobee (will place two sensors in ranch home) -Ecobee driver SumpPump sensor - alert via app, tv audio -Many options for water flow sensing. You can get just straight water sensors for this kind of use case (see if sump is overflowing). Also one's that will monitor flow through the main and look for leaks (Moen Flo). Hot Water leak sensor - alert via app, tv, audio - See above Window break sensor (wifi) and alert via app, tv, audio -Get an alarm, DSC integrates fantastically. Can program off of their sensors as well (motion, door, etc) Fireplace -Bond Bridge and driver. Just check ahead Bond will work with the Fireplace remote. Blinds/Shades (wifi)-hard wire. so worth it. Again Bond. Motion sensor (wifi, audio during sleeping hours or when away) -There are wireless zigbee C4 which are small and great for hiding away (have on stairs, laundry room, closets, bathrooms etc.) Axxess makes ones w temp and humidity I use for mud room and upstairs hall. You can also use DSC alarm ones to program off (but there is a noticeable 2 sec delay). Also can have hardwired into C4 if you can run cables. Motion dection (wifi for master bath to turn on lights on C4 dimmer) -See above. You can program anything off of motion if it's in c4. For example at night lights turn on to like 20% but day 100% or nothing depending on the motion. Video Door Bell - hardwired, door bell rings, have it come up almost instantaneously on app, tv if on, echo show, via audio speakers. -Chime from C4 seems to be current winner. I have a doorbird and like it very much overall. Video Cameras - 10 of which will be hardwired. NVR or NAS? Type of camera's. Record during night time, daytime only if motion, able to set area for motion, night vision, ability to turn on light outside or audio, audio announcement via audio speakers, shown on tv, app, etc. -Get a NVR. Have dealer take one output from NVR and put it into video matrix so you can pull up cameras on your TV straight from NVR. This basically becomes a source just like Cable or Roku etc. No quality loss this way. As far as record only certain times, or motion etc that depends on cameras and NVR abilities. I'll defer to others for those specific requirements. No Intercom -??? Integrate with voice control - Alexa - I use standard driver gets what I need done. I appreciate your insight and help and looking forward to the communication around this. Hopefully, this will help others as well. See replies in your post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Cons Granted Camera integration isn't amazing, but it's solid, and usable, and yes occasionally you'll want to use a dedicated surveillance app. Not unlike most anything else, a single tool is not always appropriate for all uses. Paring knife and a chefs knife analogy. And intercom single app is coming this week. Camera integration Intercom/doorbell (also seen as pro) control from mobile is multiple app solution Camera and NVR app is slow DS2 Mini (also seen as pro) Different brand of NVR and/or cameras Intercom app C4 not security camera friendly and displays lower resolution and has a lot of issues here Leaving Neeo Remote - not a winner, but not a looser, many like it and there is a solid alternative, knowing how to set it up is important 4 gang with C4 dimmers may not fit and overheat - All dimmers de-rate when ganged. Again design is important. Not a often seen issue by any means. All in costs expensive - individual value expectations, but comparing to the other top four, pricing inline No voice control or voice passthorugh on c4 remotes - nor is there API from those guys to make use of. Josh AI is a viable alternative, different discussion, should the mic be on the remote? No integrated geo-fencing - not built in no, but couple easy options Audio hardware over priced - Control4 often less expensive than Sonos. Amps and Matrixes priced competitively. And you don't have to use theirs, many third party alternatives. With all things there are pros and cons, with Control4 you at least have the most free selection of the top four Integration Brands to personalize your choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIS Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 18 hours ago, Neo1738 said: See replies in your post above. I appreciate your reply and additional information. Please see in-line. Garage Door (via wifi, open, closed, announce via audio for both), automation to close at certain time of day -Recommend you hard wire it into your C4 controller or a Z2IO then you will have full C4 integration. Note MyQ doors have weird security which prevents this. Search the forum there are brands that can hard wire. Or if have MyQ door you can solder to a remote and use that. That's what I do works flawlessly. OP - Our cars are a little bit older so they do not integrate with most garage door openers. That is why today I am using My Q with homelink and is all setup on WIFI. My dealer recommended me to continue with WiFi in new home and possibly use Nyce as an option and integrates well into C4. Any others using or have tried this? Garage Entry Door and Front Door - Automatically locks/unlocks with geofencing, keypad to enter via garage entry door if you do not have phone.-Can do geofencing using If this then that (IFTTT) driver for C4. Get a Yale or Kwikset C4 Zigbee lock. OP - I currenly have August but will be leaving that with the new owner, the Yale door lock seems appealing. So I can use IFTTT to integrate with C4 and then use the app with similar features of August and will have best of both worlds. However, I do like Kwikset as it does have the key in case internet is down and have alternative way to get into the house...or battery dies. Thermostat - builder providing ecobee (will place two sensors in ranch home) -Ecobee driver SumpPump sensor - alert via app, tv audio -Many options for water flow sensing. You can get just straight water sensors for this kind of use case (see if sump is overflowing). Also one's that will monitor flow through the main and look for leaks (Moen Flo). OP - I have not read anything on Moen Flo yet and will check them out. Hot Water leak sensor - alert via app, tv, audio - See above OP - I have not read anything on Moen Flo yet and will check them out. Window break sensor (wifi) and alert via app, tv, audio -Get an alarm, DSC integrates fantastically. Can program off of their sensors as well (motion, door, etc) OP - Like many trade offs and opinions, I really cannot justify a security system payment each month....well my wife tells me this. Based on her desires, I am looking to automate a few door and window break sensors. One again my dealer is recommending is NYCE. Anyone used them or other suggestions for compatiblity with C4 via WiFi? I understand the risk if power goes out or wifi/Internet goes down. Not going to fight her on this one so any other suggestions? Fireplace -Bond Bridge and driver. Just check ahead Bond will work with the Fireplace remote. OP - I currently am using Bond for my ceiling fans and works decently. We did not get the remote for our fire place and want to integrate it with the switch to turn on fireplace. Blinds/Shades (wifi)-hard wire. so worth it. Again Bond. OP - Once again, wife did not want to see the hard wire for the shades and was OK with wifi and bridge using Lutron or Hunter Douglas. Motion sensor (wifi, audio during sleeping hours or when away) -There are wireless zigbee C4 which are small and great for hiding away (have on stairs, laundry room, closets, bathrooms etc.) Axxess makes ones w temp and humidity I use for mud room and upstairs hall. You can also use DSC alarm ones to program off (but there is a noticeable 2 sec delay). Also can have hardwired into C4 if you can run cables. OP - Dealer recommended Nyce. Sounds like you think C4 sensors are good. Can the sensors be integrated so if it sees motion during time frame that it will turn on x lights that are on dimmer (using C4 dimmers) at 10% enough to see where you are going without stubbing your toe? Motion dection (wifi for master bath to turn on lights on C4 dimmer) -See above. You can program anything off of motion if it's in c4. For example at night lights turn on to like 20% but day 100% or nothing depending on the motion. OP - Your answer here answers my previous question. Video Door Bell - hardwired, door bell rings, have it come up almost instantaneously on app, tv if on, echo show, via audio speakers. -Chime from C4 seems to be current winner. I have a doorbird and like it very much overall. OP - What is the difference between Chime and doorbird? Which provides close to instantaneos notification without setting off triggers on bugs, insects, flying leafs, etc. Can both be used and integrate into app, tv, echo show and Video Cameras - 10 of which will be hardwired. NVR or NAS? Type of camera's. Record during night time, daytime only if motion, able to set area for motion, night vision, ability to turn on light outside or audio, audio announcement via audio speakers, shown on tv, app, etc. -Get a NVR. Have dealer take one output from NVR and put it into video matrix so you can pull up cameras on your TV straight from NVR. This basically becomes a source just like Cable or Roku etc. No quality loss this way. As far as record only certain times, or motion etc that depends on cameras and NVR abilities. I'll defer to others for those specific requirements. OP - That is a good way to do it. I guess that takes me to video matrix but was not considering it for limited number of TVs we will have. I have read a decent amount on Luma and appears to be mixed bag using those. However, more say the issues generally are installation and lack of understanding of fine tuning. I guess I still would like to know why NVR over NAS. I see benefits to both and one being saving costs on number of POE switch ports. No Intercom -??? OP - Can use Alexa to intercom from room to room. Integrate with voice control - Alexa - I use standard driver gets what I need done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIS Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 14 hours ago, RAV said: Cons Granted Camera integration isn't amazing, but it's solid, and usable, and yes occasionally you'll want to use a dedicated surveillance app. Not unlike most anything else, a single tool is not always appropriate for all uses. Paring knife and a chefs knife analogy. And intercom single app is coming this week. Camera integration Intercom/doorbell (also seen as pro) control from mobile is multiple app solution Camera and NVR app is slow DS2 Mini (also seen as pro) Different brand of NVR and/or cameras Intercom app C4 not security camera friendly and displays lower resolution and has a lot of issues here Leaving Neeo Remote - not a winner, but not a looser, many like it and there is a solid alternative, knowing how to set it up is important 4 gang with C4 dimmers may not fit and overheat - All dimmers de-rate when ganged. Again design is important. Not a often seen issue by any means. All in costs expensive - individual value expectations, but comparing to the other top four, pricing inline No voice control or voice passthorugh on c4 remotes - nor is there API from those guys to make use of. Josh AI is a viable alternative, different discussion, should the mic be on the remote? No integrated geo-fencing - not built in no, but couple easy options Audio hardware over priced - Control4 often less expensive than Sonos. Amps and Matrixes priced competitively. And you don't have to use theirs, many third party alternatives. With all things there are pros and cons, with Control4 you at least have the most free selection of the top four Integration Brands to personalize your choices. What cameras are you using and are you using NVR or NAS. Agreed that a one trick pony is not always the best approach. With the list of Cons, are you agreeting with those as to why you posted them? - What is the alternative to Neeo Remote? - I have Leviton today in my existing home and have 4 dimmers running without any issues for two years. So, could be design of those or as you pointed out, over heat not often seen. - Mic does not have to be on the remote. It can be controlled via Alexa for voice control if integration works well. I use Harmony Ultra today and it works well with Directv and my LG TV. However, it does not work so well with Sony Bravia tv and alexa. I have heard Josh AI is a great alternative but more expensive than Alexa, Google, etc., as I understand it. - Other than ITTT for Geo-fencing, what are those other options? - depending on the purchaser, price is always subjective and basded on technology, integration, support and easy to use, I would choose the more expensive option over cheaper hard to use and integrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 16 hours ago, VIS said: I appreciate your reply and additional information. Please see in-line. Garage Door (via wifi, open, closed, announce via audio for both), automation to close at certain time of day -Recommend you hard wire it into your C4 controller or a Z2IO then you will have full C4 integration. Note MyQ doors have weird security which prevents this. Search the forum there are brands that can hard wire. Or if have MyQ door you can solder to a remote and use that. That's what I do works flawlessly. OP - Our cars are a little bit older so they do not integrate with most garage door openers. That is why today I am using My Q with homelink and is all setup on WIFI. My dealer recommended me to continue with WiFi in new home and possibly use Nyce as an option and integrates well into C4. Any others using or have tried this? Garage Entry Door and Front Door - Automatically locks/unlocks with geofencing, keypad to enter via garage entry door if you do not have phone.-Can do geofencing using If this then that (IFTTT) driver for C4. Get a Yale or Kwikset C4 Zigbee lock. OP - I currenly have August but will be leaving that with the new owner, the Yale door lock seems appealing. So I can use IFTTT to integrate with C4 and then use the app with similar features of August and will have best of both worlds. However, I do like Kwikset as it does have the key in case internet is down and have alternative way to get into the house...or battery dies. So you know the kwikset lock you can adjust access etc in C4. You can't use your phone for a key w C4 version like the Bluetooth versions. You can't "grant access" in the kwikset app but can quickly in C4 app add a new user and put in a code for them (or give them your code if you trust them). I use this to program, when cleaners enter their code all shades go up, lights on, etc. When they leave everything back the way it was when they got there (via snapshot driver). You get the idea. As for older cars I would just use remote that comes w the door opener. To say my car is older and I want an older style opener seems silly you won't have that car likely as long as the opener and a new car would integrate fine. Plus you can just use the remote or IFTTT and integrate that way. Just my suggestion. Thermostat - builder providing ecobee (will place two sensors in ranch home) -Ecobee driver SumpPump sensor - alert via app, tv audio -Many options for water flow sensing. You can get just straight water sensors for this kind of use case (see if sump is overflowing). Also one's that will monitor flow through the main and look for leaks (Moen Flo). OP - I have not read anything on Moen Flo yet and will check them out. Hot Water leak sensor - alert via app, tv, audio - See above OP - I have not read anything on Moen Flo yet and will check them out. Window break sensor (wifi) and alert via app, tv, audio -Get an alarm, DSC integrates fantastically. Can program off of their sensors as well (motion, door, etc) OP - Like many trade offs and opinions, I really cannot justify a security system payment each month....well my wife tells me this. Based on her desires, I am looking to automate a few door and window break sensors. One again my dealer is recommending is NYCE. Anyone used them or other suggestions for compatiblity with C4 via WiFi? I understand the risk if power goes out or wifi/Internet goes down. Not going to fight her on this one so any other suggestions? Fireplace -Bond Bridge and driver. Just check ahead Bond will work with the Fireplace remote. OP - I currently am using Bond for my ceiling fans and works decently. We did not get the remote for our fire place and want to integrate it with the switch to turn on fireplace. Get a C4 switch (or even cheaper if doing a few kasa tp link switch) and integrate that into c4. Chowmain has a great driver for this. Blinds/Shades (wifi)-hard wire. so worth it. Again Bond. OP - Once again, wife did not want to see the hard wire for the shades and was OK with wifi and bridge using Lutron or Hunter Douglas. Motion sensor (wifi, audio during sleeping hours or when away) -There are wireless zigbee C4 which are small and great for hiding away (have on stairs, laundry room, closets, bathrooms etc.) Axxess makes ones w temp and humidity I use for mud room and upstairs hall. You can also use DSC alarm ones to program off (but there is a noticeable 2 sec delay). Also can have hardwired into C4 if you can run cables. OP - Dealer recommended Nyce. Sounds like you think C4 sensors are good. Can the sensors be integrated so if it sees motion during time frame that it will turn on x lights that are on dimmer (using C4 dimmers) at 10% enough to see where you are going without stubbing your toe? FYI Nyce is C4 Motion dection (wifi for master bath to turn on lights on C4 dimmer) -See above. You can program anything off of motion if it's in c4. For example at night lights turn on to like 20% but day 100% or nothing depending on the motion. OP - Your answer here answers my previous question. Video Door Bell - hardwired, door bell rings, have it come up almost instantaneously on app, tv if on, echo show, via audio speakers. -Chime from C4 seems to be current winner. I have a doorbird and like it very much overall. OP - What is the difference between Chime and doorbird? Which provides close to instantaneous notification without setting off triggers on bugs, insects, flying leafs, etc. Can both be used and integrate into app, tv, echo show and Both will be similar. Doorbird has a separate app (free) if you think integration with C4 isn't that good (Chime you are limited to C4s intercom anywhere). Video quality probably a bit better off Chime normally from the screenshots I've seen. (haven't seen it in person). Video Cameras - 10 of which will be hardwired. NVR or NAS? Type of camera's. Record during night time, daytime only if motion, able to set area for motion, night vision, ability to turn on light outside or audio, audio announcement via audio speakers, shown on tv, app, etc. -Get a NVR. Have dealer take one output from NVR and put it into video matrix so you can pull up cameras on your TV straight from NVR. This basically becomes a source just like Cable or Roku etc. No quality loss this way. As far as record only certain times, or motion etc that depends on cameras and NVR abilities. I'll defer to others for those specific requirements. OP - That is a good way to do it. I guess that takes me to video matrix but was not considering it for limited number of TVs we will have. I have read a decent amount on Luma and appears to be mixed bag using those. However, more say the issues generally are installation and lack of understanding of fine tuning. I guess I still would like to know why NVR over NAS. I see benefits to both and one being saving costs on number of POE switch ports. No Intercom -??? OP - Can use Alexa to intercom from room to room. Integrate with voice control - Alexa - I use standard driver gets what I need done. See replies, good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amr Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 10/17/2021 at 10:52 PM, VIS said: CON's Neeo Remote - it’s optional BTW, it works perfectly fine just a weak battery life on a single charge but it has a dock so not sure what is wrong here, who needs a backlight with 6 keys! Camera integration - Clearly a weak point but hay there are tons of drivers out there for lots of cams and they just working fine, u get a quick view of the entire setup from C4 UI then of u need a specific view or much enhanced one u need to use another Camera app outside C4, I know that C4 is working on a new Cam’s framework that would enhance the experience. Intercom/doorbell (also seen as pro) - Mixed results, but at least Chime is fully integrated with C4. control from mobile is multiple app solution - Not necessary at all only Cams need a specific app nothing else Camera and NVR app is slow - Mixed results as well, some get it right some is stuck DS2 Mini (also seen as pro) - Works perfectly fine, just need tweaking and it’s set it and forget it, perfect front door cam, great B&W viewing at night Different brand of NVR and/or cameras - How is that a weakness? it’s your right to choose whatever suites you and your budget Intercom app - Integrated in IOS from today, integrated in Android a long time ago 4 gang with C4 dimmers may not fit and overheat All in costs expensive - Not true, u can design a moderate cost project with a mix of C4 and non C4 components No voice control or voice passthorugh on c4 remotes - Not a weakness, a desired feature maybe, personally am not a fan of voice commands No integrated geo-fencing - again a desired feature but who has a group fencing built in solution? And at what cost? There is a great work around either with IFTTT or Apple Geofencing and they are working just fine with my use cases Audio hardware over priced C4 not security camera friendly and displays lower resolution and has a lot of issues here - True but they are working on it, T4’s has a better resolution that will be used for sure to enhance the view, but in my case, I rarely open Camera app except in extreme emergency cases where we sense some weird activities and sensors are triggered My replies to the Con’s from an end user perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 On 10/19/2021 at 12:19 AM, VIS said: What cameras are you using and are you using NVR or NAS. Agreed that a one trick pony is not always the best approach. With the list of Cons, are you agreeting with those as to why you posted them? - What is the alternative to Neeo Remote? - I have Leviton today in my existing home and have 4 dimmers running without any issues for two years. So, could be design of those or as you pointed out, over heat not often seen. - Mic does not have to be on the remote. It can be controlled via Alexa for voice control if integration works well. I use Harmony Ultra today and it works well with Directv and my LG TV. However, it does not work so well with Sony Bravia tv and alexa. I have heard Josh AI is a great alternative but more expensive than Alexa, Google, etc., as I understand it. - Other than ITTT for Geo-fencing, what are those other options? - depending on the purchaser, price is always subjective and basded on technology, integration, support and easy to use, I would choose the more expensive option over cheaper hard to use and integrate. Luma - because I want a brand that offers support, and they integrate well. SR260 is a good remote, not as sexy as a Neeo, but solid. Caseta by Lutron is another way to Geo Fencing, or Alexa with tricks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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