Getting an understanding of the ART of the POSSIBLE with C4

[jwoodward]

I am a developer in a previous live; now I manage technology for my company, so I have a good level of skill in development.

I am trying to understand the ART of the POSSIBLE in respect to programming my C4 system. My installer will do the work, I just want to present a good design...

What I have not found is good information on the programming events/styles etc that C4 is capable of, so that I can start to think of a design that pushes the envelope.

Any ideas how I can gen-up to get this info ? as the composer s/w is not available to customers.

Are there any good sites (other than this one), which provide an insight into what is possible with programming ?

Jon

[jbs]

Jon-

While Composer Pro is not available to consumers, Composer Home Edition is, and as my understanding is that the only significant difference is the ability to add hardware (for that you'd need Pro).

But from a programming perspective, you'll be able to do most of the things your dealer can, and more importantly by looking through Composer Home Edition you'll likely be able to get a much better sense of how the programming can work, and what your dealer could do with it.

That said, most of the more interesting programming I've done on the system have been based on things I've read here and in a few blogs that I've found posted about here.

But I'd definitely say the place to get started is with Composer Home Edition, which you can purchase from your dealer.

Good luck!!

--Jason

[RyanE]

I think Jason has hit the nail on the head.

Composer Home Edition should give you a good idea as to how the programming functions in a Control4 system, and only limits you as an end user from a few things.

RyanE

[jwoodward]

Excellent - Ordered and on the way from my dealer.

Thanks Guys.

Jon

[fschaeffer]

Ryan,

Can you be more specific as to what these "few things" Composer Home cannot do? Besides adding new hardware to the system, anything else?

I heard somene mentioning about "connections", which I haven't yet figured out what it is. I know for a fact that most of the loads assigned to the keypads on my system are not visible to me on my HE, that is, I can't see any programming on several keypads that control loads using the default action (tap once - light on, tap again = light off and hold to dim the light). This is somewhat annoying, as I can then program a lighting scene on top of that keypad (which is controlling a load), which kind of overrides what my dealer has done.

Thanks

[thecodeman]

Connections = how devices are connected in programming logic which might = or might not = adding/removing devices. Therefore, since you cannot add/delete items with Composer HE, you are also not able to change any connections, as that tab is missing.

The only other thing not available in HE is the programming of LOOPs, which from what I can tell you dont want to do that anyway.

[dogdvr]

Ryan,

Can you be more specific as to what these "few things" Composer Home cannot do? Besides adding new hardware to the system, anything else?

I heard somene mentioning about "connections", which I haven't yet figured out what it is. I know for a fact that most of the loads assigned to the keypads on my system are not visible to me on my HE, that is, I can't see any programming on several keypads that control loads using the default action (tap once - light on, tap again = light off and hold to dim the light). This is somewhat annoying, as I can then program a lighting scene on top of that keypad (which is controlling a load), which kind of overrides what my dealer has done.

Thanks

What you are talking about will not be seen in Pro either,

That programming is built into the switch and allows it to function if the network goes out.

[RyanE]

No, he's talking about button bindings, where you have a 2 or 3-button keypad, and you bind buttons from the keypad to buttons on the dimmer.

It's in ComposerPro, but not in HE. Why? Because bindings are part of 'installing a device', and if you delete even *one* binding, you can cause many things to just stop working.

It's one of the things that's explained in the 3 day training course, and one of the things most new dealers have most difficulty with.

Once they're setup, you typically don't mess with them.

RyanE

[dogdvr]

My bad, I missed the keypad part, I thought he was referring to a switch

[fschaeffer]

thanks all for the explanation.

If I understand it correctly, when "connecting" a new device, let's say an outlet dimmer that will hold two loads and a 2-button keypad that will control them in the default way (tap once = on, tap again = off and hold = dim), is it just a manner of selecting this behavior (without actually programming it)?

I ask this, as I'm an end user with composer HE and can't figure out a simple way to setup a keypad to behave in the default way above (without doing some fancy programming), or maybe I'm missing something here..

thanks

[fschaeffer]

sorry I missed Ryan's comments on bindings, thus what my dealer has done is binded most of my keypads to my dimmers.

Thus my question is: if they're "binded" and I don't see this "binding" anywhere in HE, I can still program a lighting scene to a specific button on a keypad that is already "binded" to a dimmer, correct? And that will override whatever this binding has done.

For instance: the top button on a keypad it binded to a dimmer that is connected to a light on my living room, where I have the tap once = on, tap again = off and hold = dim. All this is somehow "binded/programmed" and I don't see it anywhere at HE, as if I go on that specific button under programming, no programming is shown.

I then can program a lighting scene to this same button, which will override the tap one, etc. behavior. Is this how we should go about programing?

thanks

[RyanE]

If you have a button bound to a dimmer, I believe that even if you have programming attached to that button, the button binding will also happen. i.e. your scene will execute, and your dimmer will turn on because of the button press.

I haven't tried this, as usually, buttons are either bound, or they're used as buttons. Not typically both.

RyanE

[akg4y]

In order to give the end user maximum flexibility with programming buttons in HE what should we request our dealer to do with regards to bindings/connections? I still dont totally understand the relationship between all of this so what should I ask my dealer to do in order to give me the most options in HE?

For example, in the post above it sounds like the best method would be to not have the button bound to the dimmer. What exactly would the benefit of bindings be then if you can have the button still execute the same effect but not be bound to the dimmer?

[RyanE]

The button bindings are very handy during setup, because after you bind the button to the dimmer, you don't have to program LEDs and button press / release functionality. You just bind the button, and it works as if you're pressing the bound button on the dimmer.

Button binding is mainly meant to be used in 3-way setups, where you have a dimmer, and a number of 2-button keypads. You bind (connect) the top button of each 2-button keypad to the top button on the dimmer, and you bind the bottom button of each 2-button keypad to the bottom button of the dimmer, and you're done. You don't have to program LED tracking and/or button press / release.

I'd suggest that your dealer program all 2-button keypads in a 3-way situation with the button binding, and leave all the 3 and 6-button keypad buttons unbound. That way, if you change your mind on what a 3 or 6-button keypad button does, you can change it in programming.

RyanE

[akg4y]

Thanks for your help Ryan.

I see what you're saying. If I plan on just using the two button in the same fashion as the dimmer then the binding is best, but if I wanted the most flexibility on my end to modify even the 2 buttons then it would be best to have the dealer leave them unbound, correct? It will require a bit more programming to get the same basic functionality (on, off, dimming etc), but it will also allow me to later change the function of the two button without having to make a dealer call, right?

[RyanE]

Yep, that's my understanding.

Personally, I don't think there should be additional programming on 2-buttons, it's confusing to most end users.

If you see something that looks like a switch, it should act like a switch.

3 and 6-button keypads, that's something else. It doesn't look like a switch, it makes more sense to use that to trigger scenes, etc.

RyanE

[fschaeffer]

Ryan, that makes perfect sense.

Now could you or someone here paste the best possible way to program the same behavior as a dimmer or a button binded to a dimmer (press once = on, press again = off, hold = dim)

[ILoveC4]

Ryan, that makes perfect sense.

Now could you or someone here paste the best possible way to program the same behavior as a dimmer or a button binded to a dimmer (press once = on, press again = off, hold = dim)

Why wouldn't you just save yourself programming and headaches, and bind them? It isn't like once they are bound they can't be used for anything else. I have two button keypads and dimmers/switches that are bound, and perform additional functions.

Example: I have my garage one a two button keypad and switch setup in a three way type application, with the keypad being bound to the switch. When one of the garage doors open it triggers a timer, to ensure that door gets closed and the lights turn off after a certain period of time. The LED on the switch/keypad turns green to indicate the timer is on. If I am going to be doing yard work or something where I want the garage opened for an extended period of time I can press and hold either button for two seconds, at which time it will stop the timer so the garage door will stay open, and toggle the LED to red to indicate the timer has been stopped and the garage will not close on its own.

The above functionality was done on a keypad that was bound to a switch. So still I ask, why wouldn't you just bind them and save yourself a ton of time and hassle?

[wingzz]

Ryan' date=' that makes perfect sense.

Now could you or someone here paste the best possible way to program the same behavior as a dimmer or a button binded to a dimmer (press once = on, press again = off, hold = dim)[/quote']

Why wouldn't you just save yourself programming and headaches, and bind them? It isn't like once they are bound they can't be used for anything else. I have two button keypads and dimmers/switches that are bound, and perform additional functions.

Example: I have my garage one a two button keypad and switch setup in a three way type application, with the keypad being bound to the switch. When one of the garage doors open it triggers a timer, to ensure that door gets closed and the lights turn off after a certain period of time. The LED on the switch/keypad turns green to indicate the timer is on. If I am going to be doing yard work or something where I want the garage opened for an extended period of time I can press and hold either button for two seconds, at which time it will stop the timer so the garage door will stay open, and toggle the LED to red to indicate the timer has been stopped and the garage will not close on its own.

The above functionality was done on a keypad that was bound to a switch. So still I ask, why wouldn't you just bind them and save yourself a ton of time and hassle?

I have been trying to do this with my system for a while now and I keep having trouble with the override, can you email me or post the code you used to do this??

[fschaeffer]

I see what ILoveC4 is saying, but I still can't figure out if you can bound 2 dimmers to the same keypad, which is what I need.

Example: I have 2 loads (one on each side of my bed) where I can individually control them on two 3-button keypads that are installed on each side of the bed. On the other hand, I have a third 3-button keypad on the bedroom entrance hall where I want to control both loads together (tap once = on, tap again = off and hold = dim). In order to prevent the hassle of programming this button, I would need to bind one of the buttons on this 3-button keypad to both dimmers that control each load. Is that possible?

[Kevin L]

I see what ILoveC4 is saying, but I still can't figure out if you can bound 2 dimmers to the same keypad, which is what I need.

Example: I have 2 loads (one on each side of my bed) where I can individually control them on two 3-button keypads that are installed on each side of the bed. On the other hand, I have a third 3-button keypad on the bedroom entrance hall where I want to control both loads together (tap once = on, tap again = off and hold = dim). In order to prevent the hassle of programming this button, I would need to bind one of the buttons on this 3-button keypad to both dimmers that control each load. Is that possible?

you can put how ever many lights you want on 1 button and make it toggle them all and off

no binding at all just programming

[fschaeffer]

ok, I know that I can do that, but I believe that I don't need any programming if I were to bound it, correct?

Also the programming to just do ON and OFF is pretty simple. What about the programming to hold to dim the light.

From my understanding, if you bound, all this is already done for you, including the dim portion.

I haven't found a easy way to program the Hold = start dimming and release stop dimming. Can someone include this programming here?

thanks

[CFUG]

I had my dealer remove all bindings so that I'm responsible for strategy and LED colors. Much better for me. Ryan's comment about bindings being safer is true but I think he is more correct in saying it is best for everything other than 3/6KPs.

[fschaeffer]

Controlfouruserguy, can you share with us the programming needed to have the button act like a binded button, that is, tap once = on, tap again = off and hold = dim?

thanks

[ILoveC4]

ok, I know that I can do that, but I believe that I don't need any programming if I were to bound it, correct?

Also the programming to just do ON and OFF is pretty simple. What about the programming to hold to dim the light.

From my understanding, if you bound, all this is already done for you, including the dim portion.

I haven't found a easy way to program the Hold = start dimming and release stop dimming. Can someone include this programming here?

thanks

Just bind them. You can bind multiple keypads to one dimmer.