CFUG Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Is it me or are others disenchanted with Card Access products? Not that they are terrible but where are the other choices for devices such as temperature measurement, remotes and motions? Here's where am coming from with CA bits- Motions- suck. Seems as though the detection pattern is not consistent. No way (that I know of) to tighten beam pattern with fresnels. The ball mount on these things is poorly designed. Somewhat difficult to program lights-off power saving strategies within Composer with only the Occupancy Hold Time to fiddle with. Mini Remotes- semi-suck. Buttons sometimes stick and there is next to no tactile feedback. Relays- aside from sometimes being a necessity for problematic RF issues, temperature sensitivity and resolution is toy-like. I know there's more suppliers out there but it's not easy to research exactly what plays well with Control4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I'm with you on Card Access. I'm getting ready to try it some Axxess Industries stuff. Have you played with it? Sent from my Droid MAXX via Tapatalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 There's basically Card Access, Axxess Industries and Nyce. For direct C4 integration at least.Of the three, Axxess is probably currently the better line, with more detail, more options, more programming triggers and a more up-to-date design.That said all three have/give options that others do not.Card Access has always been reasonably good but a lot of their devices are up for a re-design at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I've got some of the Axxess stuff and like them Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 Alright, well at least I'm hearing there are options. My unfortunate situation is my dealer doesn't seem to want to become a "dealer" for anyone else but C4. I can't get him interested in placing orders for drivers, 3rd party gear, noth'n. I'll start with Axxess- thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Sounds like ya need a new dealer Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Well, up until lately, I didn't have a need for 3rd party anything or off-shore drivers. And, actually, I've phoned around and found out that the few dealers in my area don't touch systems installed by other dealers. They don't even want to know about my system. So to answer your question, no, at least not just for the ability to purchase non-C4 goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Wow, that would drive me crazy and I'd be venting that craziness on my dealer. More power to ya for having the patience to deal with that because i sure couldn't. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Well, after you've been involved with Control4 for some time, you learn that nothing stays the same for very long. However, I'm a little concerned since there's another C4 promo in progress and he hasn't knocked on my door trying to sell more touch-screens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I've seen very little from C4 about that promo, so he may simply not even be aware of it. A single email is easy to miss. Sounds like a strange situation though. Not sure why dealers would be THAT hesitant to touch another dealer's set-up. Some care needs to be taken there, but if you were to express unhappiness about your system and setup by another and want to hire me I don't see myself pretending you don't exist. I might insist on checking the system prior to quoting you for a fix, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 ^Understand fully. I wish those I contacted were more like you. Actually, I didn't phone them rather I met them at their booths at some trade show and a city fair. So, it was even worse than I made it out to be. Typically, face-to-face requests should yield better results but they didn't. Please no jokes like "what did you do, throw-up on 'em?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Yeah, I don't know.Some care is of course in order when 'taking over' - you don't want to get caught up in some dispute at every corner either, nor is it good to be seen as 'robbing' clients all the time, but I mean really - if there is an issue, or a dealer is in over it's head with a client that wants more than he can give - it's a free market. Only thing that comes to mind is that perhaps there HAS been quite some back-stabbing in your market and Control4 has tightened the reigns making everyone step lightly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homex Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Card Access is functional and stable and not very pretty. Axxess stuff seems decent. Haven't tried any Nyce gear. That another dealer wouldn't entertain servicing you seems strange - maybe Cyknight is right about the backstabbing thing - I can't think of anything reasonable that would prevent them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericscales Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Is it me or are others disenchanted with Card Access products? Not that they are terrible but where are the other choices for devices such as temperature measurement, remotes and motions? Here's where am coming from with CA bits- Motions- suck. Seems as though the detection pattern is not consistent. No way (that I know of) to tighten beam pattern with fresnels. The ball mount on these things is poorly designed. Somewhat difficult to program lights-off power saving strategies within Composer with only the Occupancy Hold Time to fiddle with. Mini Remotes- semi-suck. Buttons sometimes stick and there is next to no tactile feedback. Relays- aside from sometimes being a necessity for problematic RF issues, temperature sensitivity and resolution is toy-like. I know there's more suppliers out there but it's not easy to research exactly what plays well with Control4. As the others have said, try Axxess. And when you are looking at motions, if this is feasible, the best route is to put in hardwired motions to your security system and get the notification that way. I recently blanketed the house with them and they just, well, work damn well. Although, the alarm guy was having fits adding zones to my panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 ^Fixed sensors are in place and those are for a specific purpose- watching banks of doors/windows and pathways. Those are MOTION detectors. There is a need for localized space monitoring for the purpose of lighting/energy savings. Those are OCCUPANCY sensors. The battery-operated aspect is also most definitely needed. I have one mounted under a piano that trips a sheet music light. I have just one CA motion that is watching a wide area and that one has a repeatability problem. In regards to your comment about going through the alarm panel then on to C4, there is delay that can show-up as significantly long depending on system priorities at the time. CA Motion-to-Control4 typically is a much quicker route. But this can depend on how well the detector works in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Card Access is functional and stable and not very pretty. Axxess stuff seems decent. Haven't tried any Nyce gear. That another dealer wouldn't entertain servicing you seems strange - maybe Cyknight is right about the backstabbing thing - I can't think of anything reasonable that would prevent them.Stable? This can be case-by-case. I've had a relay radio go South on me and had to chuck two Mini Remotes so far. I will agree that the form-factor is not to my liking either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I have a card access motion that was having Zigbee problems. Once I got a better Zigbee route for it, it's been much more stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homex Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Stable? This can be case-by-case. I've had a relay radio go South on me and had to chuck two Mini Remotes so far. I will agree that the form-factor is not to my liking either. Yes. Stable. The only Card Access product that we have RMA'd in the last three years was a single Z2IR (which is a very handy item that Axxess doesn't have last time I looked). And at that it looked like it was a screwup from their end where somebody else's RMA accidentally got sent out the door by mistake (packaging was missing pieces and it was DOA out of the box). That's a pretty decent track record IMHO and I can't say the same for other product lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanmark Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I use to have Card Access sensors, but now use Axxess. See attached side-by-side photos. Axxess design is MUCH nicer and has more functionality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homex Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 LOL no question they win on aesthetics hands down. Although, CA has begun redesign starting with version 3 zigbee extender. (Still not as nice as the Axxess piece but better) Can anybody on here reading this that uses a LOT of them attest to performance, reliability, and failure rates of Axxess in comparison to CA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Axxess - zero failures to date, zero issues to dateCA - very few failures, but some issues with pathing on some devices, causing extenders to not extend, other devices to act slow.Performance - near enough the same that I'd be hard-pressed to favour either one. Neither product has significant issues, but for those pieces where CA and Axxess overlap, the designs, functionality (meaning what you can do with each, what is all exposed to program or program with) and price are all currently on Axxess' side, with the one exception that the new extender has a larger range (but no sensor whatsoever). Other points:-Axxess has PoE option for the extender-Axxess has a humidity sensor option in the motion (and worked with EV to show it on some screens)-Axxess has better battery life, plus added options to increase that further - BUT uses non-standard batteries-Card Access has a close working relationship with C4 (their next-door neighbours after all) since day1 giving some advantages for updates/in-grained functions-Card Access has some easy options for remote sensors - meaning external temp sensors, kits etc available.-Axxess is much more enclosed then CA units, I can tell you my Axxess pieces are up and running all winter outside (-20 F numerous days, dipping to -30 and below)), where in the past CA have failed on me.-Axxess has a 3 contact/3relay all in one unit (also temp and extender)-Card Access units are very universal in their power supply options, accepting wide ranges of DC and AC voltage, which can be more useful than you may thing...allowing you to power it along with other units, use a proper voltage supply for a relay while also powering the device and so on. Both have perfectly good devices, both companies add value - if anything they tend to fill-out each-others offerings. But be aware both are there and use them both as their units fulfill the functions best. Oh and no, their is no issue mixing them up in a single project at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 ^Got it- that's all the info one would need. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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