urbanmark Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 HomeKit is kinda big deal for the HA market and I'd expect there will be lots of companies/developers jumping on board (i.e.: Lutron and Honeywell are already previewing integration). Apple has posted a 40 minute "Intro to HomeKit" for developers that provides a lot of info: https://developer.apple.com/videos/wwdc/2014/?id=213 Scenes, triggers, scheduling, 3rd party hubs/bridges are all highlighted. And by default, you get devices that auto-identify and voice control/logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEORY Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 The EV driver has always been free IIRC. There was/is another driver that costs money that has shade level integration but it was reverse engineered. Not an official API which is what the EV driver uses.I wonder where you get your facts from. There is an API that is not published yet it is official. The Driver EV made for HunterDouglas was commisioned by HD but it doesn't use anything more official then we do. We have worked directly with HD when it came to our driver, and knowing who I have dealt with I would venture to say even more so then EV. To produce the driver they did would take a weekend at most. The reasons for the EV commissioned driver being basically scenes triggered over RS232 are political. It made no sense for us to provide a driver that was extremely limited in functions and you have to buy an HD Platinum Gateway (RS232) not an HD Platinum Bridge (Network Only) which costs more and is only available via certain channels. The API does allow for the exact same Scene Triggers via IP, yet a driver was commisioned ONLY for the RS232 which would then require an RS232 port in the C4 system. This limits the placement location of the HD Platinum device relative to the shades which depending on the home could be fairly far compared to the Shades. Please don't state your OPINION as if it's fact. The only thing different besides our driver having 2000% more functionality is EV was paid we sell ours. Neither is built upon anything more or less official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Hey everyone. Been a while. All good. Haven't used a C4 device in near on 3 months now. What a relief! LOL On the move and Simplify my life is my new mantra.. What's happening? I here EV has been bought out by C4. That's a great development yes? How is 2.6 going? You guys finding it better? Doesn't the Apple watch look awesome.. Be great to see *that* integrated and the centre of control ! Take care guys. I kinda miss the banter. Cheers and regards to all.. Wap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEORY Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 FYI Our driver is recommended via numerous avenues within Hunter Douglas, and is used by a number of Control4 dealers some being Hunter Douglas dealers and some working directly with the shade suppliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth_j Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I wonder where you get your facts from. There is an API that is not published yet it is official.So that is called a PRIVATE API. Exactly what I said. The PUBLISHED API does not support anything but scene controls. The Driver EV made for HunterDouglas was commisioned by HD but it doesn't use anything more official then we do.Not true at all. In fact here is a scan of the HD Platinum Gateway protocol documentation provided by Hunter Douglas at CEDIA 2013. EV's driver uses this protocol. As does a driver I wrote well before EV had theirs. We have worked directly with HD when it came to our driver, and knowing who I have dealt with I would venture to say even more so then EV. To produce the driver they did would take a weekend at most.That's great. I would probably agree. The protocol is not hard and very limited. It only took me a few hours during the week to write and test mine. The reasons for the EV commissioned driver being basically scenes triggered over RS232 are political.I would probably not put words in EV's mouth. That didn't work out so well for you last time. It made no sense for us to provide a driver that was extremely limited in functions and you have to buy an HD Platinum Gateway (RS232) not an HD Platinum Bridge (Network Only) which costs more and is only available via certain channels. The API does allow for the exact same Scene Triggers via IP, yet a driver was commisioned ONLY for the RS232 which would then require an RS232 port in the C4 system. This limits the placement location of the HD Platinum device relative to the shades which depending on the home could be fairly far compared to the Shades.My driver was IP, RS232 and IR. None of that really maters. I'll just use EV's driver so I don't have to maintain mine anymore. From what I found the HD shades with the Platinum Gateway are not all that great anyway. Please don't state your OPINION as if it's fact.I believe I stated more facts than you have. In fact, you were incorrect about the only two points I made in the original post. The only thing different besides our driver having 2000% more functionality is EV was paid we sell ours. Neither is built upon anything more or less official. I would agree -- you should sell yours as it does more than the crap scene control HD offers but because of posts like this I (and I know of many others) will never purchase one. FYI Our driver is recommended via numerous avenues within Hunter Douglas, and is used by a number of Control4 dealers some being Hunter Douglas dealers and some working directly with the shade suppliers.Honestly I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEORY Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Seth your interpretation of facts is very skewed. Also I didn't put words in anyone's mouth. The political nature of the EV driver would be from the company commissioning it not the one building it. So who is putting words in who's mouth? You also stated what we built was reverse engineered, when in fact it was built to an API published or not. That was my point. I can't speak to what we were provided by Hunter Douglas openly. You providing a link and stating that didn't work out so well last time are you implying because someone stole from us that someone might do that again? Please feel free to make a better driver for Hunter Douglas shades as you say you have all the IR, IP, and RS232 you require. Competition is a good thing. You can also sell to all the dealers you state will not buy from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qVAMPIREp Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Exactly. All of those systems will most likely need to be updated to be compatible with HomeKit (if they ever are). A cost and hassle that is probably more than just integrating today with C4. But Vamp is a one trick pony. He's going to keep riding even though that horse died long ago. (Sent from Tapatalk)You are finally right! Control4 is as dead as Roy Rogers horse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 By all means talk horses, But I'd rather be watching Nasdaq. That will be indirectly telling all interested parties the true state of affairs. Despite what Buffet says, in the long run Mr Market is rarely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 At $11 bucks a share they need to-do something and fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 By all means talk horses, But I'd rather be watching Nasdaq. That will be indirectly telling all interested parties the true state of affairs. Despite what Buffet says, in the long run Mr Market is rarely wrong.So 15 years ago Apple should have closed? Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 P/E is still above 70... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 lLol. 15 years ago I don't recall APPL having a market cap of under 300M. Could be wrong. But are you suggesting that somehow miracles are going to happen and C4 is going to pull a rabbit out of the hat like SteveJ did and turn it into a 10 bagger? I mean I'd be the first to celebrate. I luv this company. Who around here *doesn't* want to see if grow and succeed? But the proof is in the share price. The growth ain't going to miraculously happen if the current model is continued and opposition products keep being released that are more innovative, easier to roll out and implement without all the carry on... A few folks around here keep calling it how it is and for years have told you'll why and the stock keeps heading on the same trajectory... Have the street somehow got this wrong? I doubt it. It's still even now priced at a p/E at growth that's impossible without a drastic change of direction.... "No advice" Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy point is companies change. I work for a fortune 60 company that in 2000 was trading at 4 a share and now we are at 130. I am just saying you can't write people off to early....Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 ^ Sure!! Agree! (Time to change) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4user3622 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 C4's PE is still very high. The unforgiving state that the market is in right now - it will probably go down further.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 C4's PE is still very high. The unforgiving state that the market is in right now - it will probably go down further.Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNo matter what the general market is doing, Price follows earnings. At the moment (despite the recent sell off) CRTL is still priced at 70x earnings. That's what a P/E of 70 means. To justify that price the company has to grow earnings. And fast..the 30 Million dollar q/ (because that is the earnings C4 would need to even justify a P/E of 10 right now) is how (with the current way they are doing things) are Control4 going to grow earnings to that level and beyond to justify the current SP. It's that simple. We shouldn't delude ourselves. This company is a micro cap.. in a massive potential market.. It's supposed to be a tech stock.. yet it's product has been around in the HA industry years now with very slow (relative) earnings growth for a tech stock. And IMHO there is ONE obvious reason why the growth has been so slow. (Because the product itself is awesome...) At that reason is..... xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx (so if folks haven't figured it out by now I can't help y'all....... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qVAMPIREp Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 C4's PE is still very high. The unforgiving state that the market is in right now - it will probably go down further.Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe call is at $7.50.., yeah could be a can of whoop ass on the way for C4.Someone tell me how C4 plans to actually GROW in the face of REAL competition? Apple and Google are firing up their war furnaces about to grab the ring from C4's cold dead hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4user3622 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Their best best it to get it packaged nicely enough so that they are bought out by someone else. The people who really appreciate what C4 offers are like us on this forum who have the geek factor in us. The general public want an easy off the shelf system to use that they can buy at Home Depot, lowes or at the Apple store etc. they don't want overpriced dealers and costs or a model that makes them enslaved to someone else to update their systems every few months.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Their best best it to get it packaged nicely enough so that they are bought out by someone else. The people who really appreciate what C4 offers are like us on this forum who have the geek factor in us. The general public want an easy off the shelf system to use that they can buy at Home Depot, lowes or at the Apple store etc. they don't want overpriced dealers and costs or a model that makes them enslaved to someone else to update their systems every few months.Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI don't think this forum represents a majority of C4 users but ok Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Your right we doesn't represent the majority of current users and the majority of current customers aren't enough to keep the market happy. It's no longer about what C4's business model HAS been its about what it must become to grow and survive as a listed company. How good do you think a delisting would be for C4? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4user3622 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 It's probably not going to disappear. At some price they will get bought out. You have to be under a dollar for a period of time before you get delisted.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I think it's about time everyone involved gets totally real here. For those that own stock my advice is delve deep into the financials and get some earnings estimates. Make sure there is not too much debt. Anyone who owns stock and visits here often enough and/or has the product are well aware of the current business model. Get some earnings estimates for next fin yr. Then assess wether you think they are accurate. Then Do the math. What are the analysts saying? What earnings do they all say CRTL can do next year?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 With Apple planning what they are, Why is everyone assuming a buyout is a certainty? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 If they are currently profitable (and one would assume so), and the current model stays: More likely CRTL will stay in business and grumble along...With slow growth. If that's only say 10%-20% yr on yr, then that ain't equal to a PE of 70!!! IMHO and No advice !Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qVAMPIREp Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I would hope no one here is dumb enough to be holding C4 stock praying for a white knight.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 This is the most recent filing. CRTL doesn't appear to be going broke anytime soon..(no advice and DYOR) ...it;s cash flow positive and has no debt. There was the EV aquisition. The *REAL* issue is valuing it's growth.. that's the guessing game here.. Time will tell. "Do Your Own Research" and NOT advice! Control 4.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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