wappinghigh Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 People who think 100+ device home networks are problem free and ridgy didge 100% rock solid reliable 24/7/365, for decades long just are not living in the real world and telling little fibbies IMHO.. Just do the maths... the chance of 100 devices still working after a year the same way as they started with all the firmware updates, and hardware failure rates out there is next to zero so that is a fibbie right there that things "remain stable" after a year..... Well not ever evolving networks with added and swapped devices, new 4K gear, all running in 40 degreeC heat, in the "modern family", with Cheap Chinese plug packs and Taiwanese MB's (which is pretty much all gear these days) and dad or a kid pulling a few network plugs by accident occasionally and not putting em back in exact same spot as Mom screams things don't work anymore etc I mean that is the real world..(there might be 100 connections) ---- just saying DON'T BELIEVE THEM if they tell you that 100% no failure nonsense that's all I'm sayin'...The probability of that is a big fat "0.0" I'd reckon. Rock on C4 W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 What?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 You still have to do maintenance these are likely not ISP routers and single room setups. You are talking about something that likely costs as much or exceeds vehicles in many cases, which you still have to do tuneups and oil changes. When it is time to do large overhauls, those may be necessary when infrastructure needs are changed. Especially on larger systems. Documentation is key as well, and keeping is 100% up to date can be difficult if you don't do it right off the bat. This includes inputs, outputs, IR/serial, what spare wires you have, individual network port connections to each device, network addresses and MAC addresses. If planned properly from the beginning and allowing headroom those issues should be minimized if they come up at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D - Benn Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 100 devices isn't actually a whole lot when you step back and look after an install. All I can say is that if the chance of them all still working after a year was 0, I'm pretty sure I'd be out of a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Wap, sorry you are just not correct. TCP/IP is a standard, so this why things are solid. You need appropriate maintenance plans and all. For example, auto power cycles monthly and things like that to maintain the environment. People do this for a living and it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christophers Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 3 hours ago, sonic30101 said: You still have to do maintenance these are likely not ISP routers and single room setups. You are talking about something that likely costs as much or exceeds vehicles in many cases, which you still have to do tuneups and oil changes. When it is time to do large overhauls, those may be necessary when infrastructure needs are changed. Especially on larger systems. Documentation is key as well, and keeping is 100% up to date can be difficult if you don't do it right off the bat. This includes inputs, outputs, IR/serial, what spare wires you have, individual network port connections to each device, network addresses and MAC addresses. If planned properly from the beginning and allowing headroom those issues should be minimized if they come up at all. ^^ this. i have a 54-page program of record document for my personal residence alone and operate on enterprise-grade gear. however, i generally don't need to do any maintenance on the network itself other than monitoring for security vulnerabilities and upgrading the software as a result 2 hours ago, msgreenf said: Wap, sorry you are just not correct. TCP/IP is a standard, so this why things are solid. You need appropriate maintenance plans and all. For example, auto power cycles monthly and things like that to maintain the environment. People do this for a living and it works. exactly. at my day job, my team maintains over 400,000 network ports around the world at over 150 locations. of course we have issues, but those issues are almost never the access layer and users are plugging, unplugging, and mucking with whatever random piece of sh*t device is on the other end of the switchport. as someone in the networking industry, i am actually very impressed at c4's ability to not only acquire and develop a product for their ecosystem, but also develop a great training program behind it. for example, a practical exam portion is something even cisco/juniper do not do until you get to a senior level. this is helping to get "green" (new) installers from putting in a $50 best buy router that's daisy chained 5 layers deep with dozens of devices and then asking for support, OR even worse, delivering a low quality project to their customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 What exactly are we talking about here when we say "network". The TCP/IP network? The Zigbee network? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christophers Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, zaphod said: What exactly are we talking about here when we say "network". The TCP/IP network? The Zigbee network? looks like we're talking about tcp/ip network (but im guessing layers 1-3 based on the initial post in the thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christophers Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 a few days ago i had to update the IOS version on my switch, here was the uptime timer: spit-sw1#sh ver | i uptime spit-sw1 uptime is 1 year, 14 weeks, 4 days, 38 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Impressive - my Ubiquiti USG switch has had very good uptime as well - the only time that it really goes down is when I do upgrades of the firmware - and there is one pending now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 24 minutes ago, Christopher Spitler said: a few days ago i had to update the IOS version on my switch, here was the uptime timer: spit-sw1#sh ver | i uptime spit-sw1 uptime is 1 year, 14 weeks, 4 days, 38 minutes @wappinghigh will say fake news LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christophers Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Just now, sonic30101 said: @wappinghigh will say fake news LMAO i assumed, so i was looking for an actual screenshot instead of just the copy pasta i did. no dice, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I have worked on Pix Firewalls with 10 years of up time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christophers Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 minute ago, msgreenf said: I have worked on Pix Firewalls with 10 years of up time.... those things last forever. i'm pretty sure that after DPRK launches nukes and we do the same, PIX and twinkies will be the only things left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 yup - solid, solid hardware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Christopher Spitler said: those things last forever. i'm pretty sure that after DPRK launches nukes and we do the same, PIX and twinkies will be the only things left. And Keith Richards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 17 hours ago, zaphod said: What exactly are we talking about here when we say "network". The TCP/IP network? The Zigbee network? Well if the former goes down as you know (which was the case here), the later doesn't work either as you know as well I'm sure... W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 Ok culprit this time around seems to have been a Unifi WAP which has now been separated from the network (the WAP having been stable for well over 12 months). Why it suddenly started to cause problems??? I have no idea because I can't loggin due to the recent Unifi OSX app problem with the latest versions of OSX which kinda proves my point that theses issues are often mutlifactorial. (which makes them random and unpredictable) I aint saying they are C4's "fault".. of course they aren't what I am doing is documenting the endless issues that can hit a Control4 platform from "left field" making the end user of Control4's platform less satisfied than they would otherwise be. It's the old car and road issue/analogy I know, but still doesn't mean it's not a problem for the car manufacturer.. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 17 hours ago, msgreenf said: I have worked on Pix Firewalls with 10 years of up time.... Did they have to deal with as many as a 100 "domestic" networked devices? I think we need to separate the issue here domestic vs business/enterprise devices - the issue here is not so much the network, but what potentially hangs off it (in a more domestic environment)... W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 21 hours ago, sonic30101 said: You still have to do maintenance these are likely not ISP routers and single room setups. You are talking about something that likely costs as much or exceeds vehicles in many cases, which you still have to do tuneups and oil changes. When it is time to do large overhauls, those may be necessary when infrastructure needs are changed. Especially on larger systems. Documentation is key as well, and keeping is 100% up to date can be difficult if you don't do it right off the bat. This includes inputs, outputs, IR/serial, what spare wires you have, individual network port connections to each device, network addresses and MAC addresses. If planned properly from the beginning and allowing headroom those issues should be minimized if they come up at all. Yep great post. thanks for that. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 20 hours ago, msgreenf said: Wap, sorry you are just not correct. TCP/IP is a standard, so this why things are solid. You need appropriate maintenance plans and all. For example, auto power cycles monthly and things like that to maintain the environment. People do this for a living and it works. Sure. However, the maintenance plans and power cycles exist because of the very fact that networks are not 100% stable 24/7/365 - so you have basically just answered my post that you agree with what I said in the OP. If they were stable and 100% reliable 24/7/365, there would be no need for "such plans" or intervention. W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, wappinghigh said: Did they have to deal with as many as a 100 "domestic" networked devices? I think we need to separate the issue here domestic vs business/enterprise devices - the issue here is not so much the network, but what potentially hangs off it (in a more domestic environment)... W they dealt with 1000's of devices. it doesn't matter what kind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, wappinghigh said: Sure. However, the maintenance plans and power cycles exist because of the very fact that networks are not 100% stable 24/7/365 - so you have basically just answered my post that you agree with what I said in the OP. If they were stable and 100% reliable 24/7/365, there would be no need for "such plans" or intervention. W. Buy enterprise gear and you won't have to do this. Which isn't 100% true either as you will want to take things down and patch them. But you 75 guest devices as you point out, shouldn't put your network in a tizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecschnei Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I need to have one of you guy's scope out my network...I have a USG-pro and edge POE 48 port router that I'm not getting throughput where "I" think it should be. I've had Ubiquiti chat on it but they only go as far as my USG-pro since they don't talk to edge equipment...It's like right twix/left twix at Ubiquiti.....LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 It isn't just the Unifi WAP there is so much other random sh!te going on in my network.... maybe it's this new OWC macbookpro USB 3.0 doc I just added.. the ethernet on that thing is doing some weird shite or could it be a Cisco unmanaged switch that is failing? or could it be some weird wifi setting that has been left on (un-intentionally) on one of the Hikvisions? (their wifi set up is so weird I think it is still in Taiwanese...I mean how do you turn off the wifi on these cams?) or the old Sonos wifi/ethernet loop thing suddenly rearing it's ugly head again due to some random change with a recent Sonos firmware? (having been stable for well over 2 years now) who the f knows? Thing is do you guys call out your dealer in the middle of the night to sort this sort of thing? Do you guys call him/her out to just add in a Macbook Pro doc (that you bought on line)? Did you check on line the OWC forums to see how stable that ethernet port was on the thing before you connected it into your network? Does your dealer set every single setting on every single device on your network before adding it to your home? Every computer, iphone, TV, switch, music streamer, kodi box, camera, echo dot, trial device sent to you in the mail, networking program you run on Windows..etc etc add infinitum, every single device every single time you add or change one? I mean these are all the random variables consumers have to deal with these days on networked devices and seems to me, one small issue, or one unbeknown firmware update, or one small fault, or one tiny fat finger on a setting in each and every one of them is capable of eventually bringing down an entire network and by definition therefore a complete multiroom music setup like the new Spotify C4 integration or even an entire Control4 home.. Just sayin W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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