zaphod Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Yeah, I have followed 65200 of those threads, but the reason that I bring it up is that Kindel expressly criticized HA companies consumer antagonistic behaviour. As in "they pull all sorts of customer antagonistic stunts like refusing to allow end-customers access to change their own systems." So the hope is that he will be an advocate for creating a prosumer category of users that have access to change their own systems. No point in rehashing the arguments, just pointing out that he may bring a new perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 12 minutes ago, thegreatheed said: Control4 already allows more end-user optimization than their major competitors, savant, crestron, etc. So... they already know those options won't destroy business. What's the point again? The point is that consumers who have the significant investments in C4 systems should have the option to configure the equipment they own. That C4 offers more end-user optimization is irrelevant (other than that may have been a factor in selecting C4 over other options in the first place). I'm not trying to rehash the Pro vs HE debate. Bad dealers want to keep Pro out of the hands of power users; that's pretty evident. I'm simply saying that since Kindel believed end users should have such control before he joined C4, he may be the best hope to convince management at C4 that the dealer model isn't going to collapse if they allow non-dealers to license Pro. C4 could then be the only major player to offer their customers as much or as little control as they want and would instantly gain a dedicated group of users likely to champion their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, zaphod said: Yeah, I have followed 65200 of those threads, but the reason that I bring it up is that Kindel expressly criticized HA companies consumer antagonistic behaviour. As in "they pull all sorts of customer antagonistic stunts like refusing to allow end-customers access to change their own systems." So the hope is that he will be an advocate for creating a prosumer category of users that have access to change their own systems. No point in rehashing the arguments, just pointing out that he may bring a new perspective. not saying you are right or wrong - but its a circular disagreement. You can use Composer HE and When/Then - those tools "allow end customers access to change their own systems" - he could have been talking about Savant, Crestron, Elan, etc which allow ZERO control. Again who knows, its all pure speculation. I do not know anything about this guy until he popped up here - that said his goodbye post mentioned hiring a CEDIA person, then he had a post about home automation, then he pops up at C4. Who knows how he was recruited over and the real story behind everything. Based on his track record he is obviously sharp and very in tune with this space and yes he comes from a more retail/big box/open platform so maybe C4 can nudge in that direction - it would make me happy too but I am satisfied with the current platform as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Yet, he bought control4, right? Even without that control, the experience was far superior then what can be cobbled together. In fact, the model was so strong he went to work for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 1 minute ago, msgreenf said: Yet, he bought control4, right? Even without that control, the experience was far superior then what can be cobbled together. In fact, the model was so strong he went to work for them... Ah - the "what we have is good enough" argument. Which always seems to come from someone with Pro. And ignores that the model could be stronger. Kindel called out a failing of the industry. Now he's in a position to do something about it. We'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 30 minutes ago, msgreenf said: Yet, he bought control4, right? Even without that control, the experience was far superior then what can be cobbled together. In fact, the model was so strong he went to work for them... Because he wanted to be able to get Composer Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 24 minutes ago, msgreenf said: Yet, he bought control4, right? Even without that control, the experience was far superior then what can be cobbled together. In fact, the model was so strong he went to work for them... I imagine he actually thinks the experience is mediocre, but still the best available and since he doesn't actually need to work he thought he might fix his and his neighbors systems. But seriously, he knows a fight is coming and it looks like fun. Easy pickins if they give him some authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Pounce said: I imagine he actually thinks the experience is mediocre, but still the best available and since he doesn't actually need to work he thought he might fix his and his neighbors systems. But seriously, he knows a fight is coming and it looks like fun. Easy pickins if they give him some authority. He admitted that at the level of home that he has, the dealer model is superior. He was DIY'ing himself to death. Go read his blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, thegreatheed said: He admitted that at the level of home that he has, the dealer model is superior. He was DIY'ing himself to death. Go read his blog. My point exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, thegreatheed said: He admitted that at the level of home that he has, the dealer model is superior. He was DIY'ing himself to death. Go read his blog. The dealer model and allowing qualified users to license Pro are not mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 23 minutes ago, jfh said: The dealer model and allowing qualified users to license Pro are not mutually exclusive. He's more qualified than just about any user, and he believes the dealer model is superior on his scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 45 minutes ago, thegreatheed said: He admitted that at the level of home that he has, the dealer model is superior. He was DIY'ing himself to death. Go read his blog. Sorry, what did I miss? Him working at C4 is going to fix his home system, right? I mean we assume he is actually going to use C4, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 41 minutes ago, thegreatheed said: He's more qualified than just about any user, and he believes the dealer model is superior on his scale. I don't think any of us are saying that the dealer model should go away - we just want the ability to augment it for power users. If I had Composer Pro I would still use a dealer, but there are a bunch of things that I would like to do myself and that I could do myself. We are all aware that some folks do use C4 without a dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 hours ago, zaphod said: Because he wanted to be able to get Composer Pro Underrated post. Haha This guy is playing 3D chess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, thegreatheed said: He's more qualified than just about any user, and he believes the dealer model is superior on his scale. I think the dealer model is superior as well (so does about 95% of the users on here) Doesn’t mean i think dealer exclusivity to the software is superior. If I had to guess, he is going to be creating Control4’s own voice control built into C4 remotes and touch screens so they don’t have to rely on Amazon or google (when Sonos went public, investors cited this as a big negative for them that they didn’t have their own voice control). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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