GE Concord 4 Question

[ILoveC4]

Hey guys, my dealer is fairly new and isn't up to date on all the security stuff. He feels comfortable getting it added to the project and what not, but isn't 100% confident in answering some of my questions correctly, so hopefully you guys are.

First thing is that he isn't a GE dealer, so I am going to be buying the stuff online. What exactly do I need? All I really want to do is integrate sensors on my doors and windows, and I know which sensors to buy. What I am curious about is the panel. Do I need just the panel and power cord, or do I need the kit I see for sell. I am not going to be using it as a security system "per se" at this point, but want that option. For where I am right now it appears to be the most economical solution to get sensors on my doors and windows that control4 can monitor.

Will I be able to see all of the GE Concord sensors in Control4? Will they appear just like my garage door sensors?

If I do want to use it as an alarm, can I arm and disarm the system using control4 or do I need one of there keypads? If you can arm and disarm via Control4, do you utilize a password on a touchpanel?

All I should need to connect it to my Control4 system is an open serial port, right? Am I going to need to have someone familiar with the GE panel come out and program it, or is it pretty much just plug and play with the programming taking place on the Control4 side?

I know that is a lot of questions, I really appreciate some guidance here.

[RyanE]

To connect a GE Concord to a Control4 system, you also need the SuperBus 2000 Automation Module.

You also have to learn all of your sensors into the Concord system before connecting it to the Control4 system. The Control4 system can pull your Zone information from the Concord and setup contact bindings within the Control4 system, so your dealer can attach Control4 contacts, just like he would for a Control4 controller.

As far as arming / disarming the system, if you have graphical Navigator devices, you can arm and disarm the security system using those. It is typically recommended that you also have a physical security panel keypad installed near the doors that you typically use for entry/exit, because if you have a power outage, etc., the security system would still need to be armed / disarmed.

RyanE

[chicagoskiguy]

Ryan,

I've read that different security systems have different levels of integration with C4, could you share the 2 systems which in your opinion integrate with C4 the tightest?

Thank you,

Scott

[RyanE]

No.

I don't like to 'play favorites' with the security panels, and which integrate the 'tightest' is completely a matter of opinion. I will say that those panels that have 'virtual keypad' functionality typically are a better user experience than those that do not. The panels that currently have 'Virtual Keypad' functionality include the:

GE Concord 4 with the 'SuperBus 2000 Automation' module

GE NX-2/4/6/8 with the NX-587E 'Virtual Keypad' module

DSC with the IT-100 module

Ademco with the 'Vista ICM' module

Dealers will find that they have a favorite from among these panels, and they can certainly argue the merits of panel vs. panel, but most I would suspect install the panel their security guy (or security company) is most familiar with.

RyanE

Edited to: Fix the model number of the NX-587E.

[chicagoskiguy]

Thank you!

[Mav-Jason]

We do our own security, including monitoring (complete with cell phone texts and emails on trip), and we use the Concord 4 exclusively, when dealing with a client that ALSO uses C4 that is.

Edit: If client is not a C4 user, we will use the NX-8E... better cost I believe.

[rsmout]

End users can program the panel but be prepared to read most of the manual that comes with it.

Be careful which kit you buy. Some kits come with a keypad that has limited programming capabilities. Also, make sure you get the battery for back up power even if you have it on external battery back up

[RyanE]

Security panel setup is typically very arcane and uses industry-specific terminology. You may have to learn quite a bit more than even is in the manual. Fortunately, most terminology you can look up online these days.

End users can certainly set them up, but not typically if they're going to be monitored. Monitoring companies typically have rigorous sets of default values that they require before they'll monitor you.

RyanE

[ILoveC4]

I am not going to have the system monitered. I will get in touch with a dealer that is more intune with the Concord security setup and buy everything from them. I am hoping to make the physical setup and programming of the Concord system myself, and then let the C4 dealer take care of that part.

[R_Willis]

I'm not a dealer/installer, just an end user.

But I just installed a Concord4 panel and sensors myself.

If you have any questions, I might be able to help. Gladly will if I can.

[ILoveC4]

^^^I just sent you an email.

[chicagoskiguy]

Ryan,

Above you mentioned: Ademco with the 'Vista ICM' module

I've read that the Ademco Vista 128FBP is compatible with C4. Does the Vista 128 require the ICM and/or just the serial interface?

Also, any feedback on ELK M1G integration with Control 4?

Thanks,

Scott

[RyanE]

Yes, the 128FBP / BP is compatible either through the serial module or the ICM, but the ICM is a much newer driver, and provides better 'virtual keypad' interface, although it's zone close reports are a little slower, and it's limited to reporting 32 zones' open/close.

There is a driver for the ELK M1 Gold. What do you mean, 'any feedback'?

RyanE

[thefred]

Yes, the 128FBP / BP is compatible either through the serial module or the ICM, but the ICM is a much newer driver, and provides better 'virtual keypad' interface, although it's zone close reports are a little slower, and it's limited to reporting 32 zones' open/close.

There is a driver for the ELK M1 Gold. What do you mean, 'any feedback'?

RyanE

Ryan,

I'm pretty sure I have the serial module. What is the difference with virtual keypad with the ICM? Does it allow you to use the features of the keypad other than just arm and disarm? Meaning, can you arm with instant or away with ICM where you can only arm and disarm with serial?

[RyanE]

The ICM actually pretends it's a keypad, and we send button presses to it, and get the display text back from it. Because of this, we can press any key that you can press on the actual keypad. With the 'old' serial module, there was no keypad emulation. You could arm and disarm, and that was it for keypad functionality. You could not see what was actually on the display screen of the keypad.

As far as what you can or can't do with it, I didn't write the driver, but you *should* be able to do all keypad functionality.

RyanE

[chicagoskiguy]

Thank you for the response Ryan.

So theoretically would any Ademco Vista Alarm compatible with the ICM (not exclusively the Vista 128, 256) work with C4, or are Ademco's still limited to just the 128, and 256?

As far as feedback for the ELK M1 Gold, does that system have a virtual keypad, or is the list above a complete list of panels with virtual keypads?

Scott

[RyanE]

I don't remember whether the Elk supports a true 'virtual keypad' or not.

Many different Ademco Vista panels are compatible with the ICM, but you'd have to verify it with Ademco. I believe any panels with 'P' in the name are supported (Vista-20P, etc.).

RyanE

[thefred]

The ICM actually pretends it's a keypad, and we send button presses to it, and get the display text back from it. Because of this, we can press any key that you can press on the actual keypad. With the 'old' serial module, there was no keypad emulation. You could arm and disarm, and that was it for keypad functionality. You could not see what was actually on the display screen of the keypad.

As far as what you can or can't do with it, I didn't write the driver, but you *should* be able to do all keypad functionality.

RyanE

So, I'm trying to follow you here. If I can see the keyad numbers on the C4 screen, would that mean that I've got the ICM? I can press the numbers on the screen, but I don't have the secondary fundtions like away, instant, etc. Is that a driver fuinction or is it possible I have the serial module.

[RyanE]

I don't *know* what you have, now do I?

That you can see a keypad on the Navigator screen just means that you have a security driver in your project. Whether or not it's a true 'virtual keypad' depends on what driver that is, and what the protocol support for the panel is.

RyanE

[akg4y]

Is there a reason youre not having it monitored? Places like nextalarm are only $12/mo if paid 3 years in advance, so $144/yr and having monitoring dropped my insurance cost by $60, making it only about $7/mo net.

[pharmdsmith]

I have the vista 20p with icm module and my kepad on the touchscreens or tv screens look a lot like the real touch pad. It has the the numbers on the right and on the left it has away, stay, diarm, instant, and bypass buttons. So to disarm it I can punch in my four digit code plus 1. ****1 On the real pad it says on button 1-off, or I punch my four digit code plus disarm button, ****disarm. It is great being able to arm my alarm from bed, also I have put in a schedule timer via control4 to arm my system at a specific time each night for those nights I forget. The only draw back like Ryan said is the 30 second delay for the touchscreens/control4 to recognize that a zone has closed. It knows immediately when a zone opens which is the more important thing. The only draw back to zone closing taking 30 seconds is that I have an announcement telling me when and what exterior door opens (I have young kids and this helps me keep tabs when they go in and out the basement door when I'm not in the basement or vice versa I'm in the basement and they go in and out of another door upstairs). If someone opens it I get the announcement but if they close and open it again before 30 seconds has elapsed from the first opening, then I won't get that announcement. Now this doesn't happen a lot but it can happen. Other then that the vista 20p has worked great with my control4.

[thefred]

I don't *know* what you have, now do I?

That you can see a keypad on the Navigator screen just means that you have a security driver in your project. Whether or not it's a true 'virtual keypad' depends on what driver that is, and what the protocol support for the panel is.

RyanE

I know you don't. I just wanted you to guess! I thought that there was only one driver for a particular piece of hardware. So now I understand that the functionality of the hardware is dependent on the driver AND there can be different drivers for the same piece of hardware. Did I get that right?

[thecodeman]

That's true. Ryan can make a driver for a DVD player, and I can make a different one, with codes that he left out because he was lazy. Or only wanted certain functions and didnt care about the rest. Or vice versa.

[RyanE]

The reason there are two drivers for the Ademco gear is that the old serial interface, which had "Protocol A", ONLY worked on the 128BP / 128FBP panels, and didn't have the Virtual Keypad functionality.

Ademco and a partner company developed the ICM module, which has a completely different protocol, "Protocol B", and sits on the keypad bus of any Vista 'P' panel.

Since the protocols (and the physical connection! -- the old one is serial, the ICM is ethernet) are completely different, you need different drivers.

RyanE

[thefred]

OK. I have the serial interface module inside the alarm box. I guess that means I don't ahve the ICM. Any thoughts on why one installer would choose the serial over the ICM? It seems the only downside is the delay on the ICM. Is there any significant cost difference for the ICM module or more significant programming for the ICM?