csmpez Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Interesting article in CEPRO... thought I'd share.New home automation system from Crestron starts at about $700, offers wizard-based programming, is not compatible with other Crestron productshttp://www.cepro.com/article/crestrons_low_cost_prodigy_to_compete_with_control4/07.21.2009 — Crestron is working on a "Control4 buster" called Prodigy (press release).Crestron began talking about this very inexpensive home automation system about two years ago, most notably when Tweeter was still in business. Now the cat's out of the bag in a public forum at RemoteCentral.com.A dealer calling himself "Vincent Delpino" notes on the RC forums: Ok so I guess Crestron wants to compete with Control 4 and is going to release a new line of product that is dirt cheap with wizard based programming. This line will only be compatible with other products in the line and not any other Crestron gear. This is a little baffling to me and to give you an idea of the pricing an MLX-2 Prodigy model will retail for around $200-$300 with 2 way communication. They will also have a 4" in wall touch panel for $700Dealers report that Crestron reps are saying the company wants to "wipe Control4 off the planet."Crestron marketing director Vincent Bruno says Crestron wants to "broaden our market reach and compete with other products in our space." But he firmly denies that the company wants to obliterate Control4. "That's not the company's position," he says.So why now? "Honestly, because we could," says Bruno. UPDATE: Prodigy back panel. The company says, yes it is compatible with third-party subsystems but declines to comment further.Software development has made wizard-based programming much more practical, he explains. "The user can program it themselves. We're going to get them [dealers] in and out of a job quickly. It expands their reach beyond just high-end homes."Market for Crestron ProdigyCrestron is easily the most popular home control system among the CE Pro 100. Some 62 percent of the country's largest integrators use Crestron. But Control4, only a few years old, is creeping up in the ranks, with 28 percent of the CE Pro 100 selling the line.It's no secret that Control4's rise in the home control business has rankled Crestron management. Crestron's first attempt at a more downscale system, Adagio, is still not cheap enough to compete.A Control4 automation system starts at about $300 for what amounts to a feature-rich universal remote control solution. Add a couple hundred dollars and you can get a system with a two-way ZigBee remote including metadata.The Prodigy price points will be very similar. A "media controller" with remote will list for about $700. An in-wall touchscreen costs less than $700. Wireless dimmers will sell for about $99. The system supports up to 16 zones of audio (not wireless). Programming is wizard-based via a program called Composer.Prodigy does employ ZigBee wireless technology but the system is not compatible with other Crestron lines.Several high-end Crestron dealers such as Electronic Design Group, Piscataway, N.J., and Audio Advisors, West Palm Beach, Fla., have started new divisions for more down-scale installations. They are using Control4.The principals of both companies say they have not been approached by Crestron regarding Prodigy.With so many loyal Crestron dealers, the company should have an enthusiastic audience for a more mass-market solution.It would be a good move for Crestron, I think.The company has the customer base and credibility to penetrate the quasi-masses. Clearly, many Crestron dealers are interested in a more high-volume option. Why shouldn't Crestron provide it?One Crestron dealer tells me: "It [Prodigy] makes perfect sense. It will continue to become more difficult to sell a $100k Crestron system to someone who wants a basic feature set. I would love to have reliable Crestron hardware as the back end to an entry level system."As always, there will be bickering among Crestron's core dealer base (What? You're going to open up the market to trunk slammers?!), but traditional Crestron dealers shouldn't fret. If, as expected, Prodigy is not upgradeable to a full-blown Crestron system, then the line should not cannibalize sales of Crestron's flagship high-end solutions.Prodigy will be available to all Crestron dealers, but the company also is "looking to expand our dealership," Bruno says. "Not all dealers want to play at this level." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Cool remote lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I saw that this morning. I'm not worried about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Programming is wizard-based via a program called Composer.Are you kidding me? They are going to name the programming software Composer?That's original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 No worries- Hopefully Control 4 will trump this somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jberger Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 They already have a programming enviroment for the adagio called composer, so it's not a new name. But it is pretty funny when you think about how hard they tried to ignore and belittle C4 over the past few years. Crestron has now validated the entire C4 story and will be hard pressed to keep up in this space without negatively impacting the high margin/high end solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cezar_oz Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I wonder if this will cause a bit of a price war and C4's price will also tumble ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cezar_oz Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 "Prodigy does employ ZigBee wireless technology but the system is not compatible with other Crestron lines.".... I wounder if it'll be compatible with C4 down the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I doubt this will affect Control4's strategy and pricing.Control4 is already quite affordable, even compared to what they're showing, and is not as limited (i.e. you can control any number of lights, 3rd-party devices, etc., and your system can upgrade with you).RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cezar_oz Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I doubt this will affect Control4's strategy and pricing.Control4 is already quite affordable, even compared to what they're showing, and is not as limited (i.e. you can control any number of lights, 3rd-party devices, etc., and your system can upgrade with you).I would argue about "affordable", as Australian prices are just stupid (how else would you call a 100%+ premium for shipping the kit across the Pacific?), but the rest is true - based on what we know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Competition is a good thing, and shouldn't do anything other than force both companies to make a better product, at a more competitive price point.I really don't see any way that this could hurt us Control4 users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm not going to argue that international pricing is as 'affordable' as the US pricing.We've gone over that in the past week, and it's pretty much as hashed as it's going to get.Feel free to move over here to the US...RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In Control Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Was not really sure what to make of this when I first read it. The words "obliterate Control 4" did have me thinking...In the end I see it as positive for C4. The way I see it, the biggest player with the "best" (at least, most expensive) gear is conceding that C4 business model and technology base works. That is a pretty big shot in the arm for C4 and they should take that as massive boost.In the end, C4 will have to be smart in competing with Crestron. C4 has a natural advantage in the market - it would have to be almost be counter-intuitive for Crestron to create "affordable" products as their business isn't set up in that fashion. The ball is in C4's court - I hope they stick it to Crestron ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jberger Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 The number of homes with zero automation is much much larger than the number of homes with any automation, so it doesn't matter. Both companies can quadruple in sales volume and have a negligible impact on the percentage of automated homes in the US. That's why all the infighting (see the stupidity on the remote central thread) is so pointless. There will be no "winner" in all of this, but both companies stand to make money by enlarging the market itself since the level of penetration is low. A rising tide lifts all boats. I welcome the opportunity to compete, it will make potential clients more aware of automation, it will make the products we have to offer better, and it will lower the costs of entry for everyone. That's a good thing. The idea that Crestron will "kill" C4 is simply hyperbole, especially since C4 has or is about to ship it's 1 millionth zigbee device. That kind of first mover advantage is hard to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Now this is out, the obvious thing Control4 is going to have to look at, is their attitude to end user/customer programming (rather than by installer only).We have seen countless posts from customers requesting this. C4 is going to have to offer this: now that Prodigy looks like offering "wizard" style programming.To me this a very important selling point. C4 is going to have to reconsider their position on this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Now this is out, the obvious thing Control4 is going to have to look at, is their attitude to end user/customer programming (rather than by installer only).We have seen countless posts from customers requesting this. C4 is going to have to offer this: now that Prodigy looks like offering "wizard" style programming.To me this a very important selling point. C4 is going to have to reconsider their position on this....Did you forget about Composer HE?The article didn't mention that an installer/programmer is no longer required. What it is saying is there will be *SOME* level of end user programming, where with Crestron currently there is none. I would be surprised if there "wizard style programming" was as indepth or comprehensive as Composer HE.Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 The 'Composer' installer for their 'other' wizard-style programming tool is still dealer only.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff at Zektor Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 We have been told that there has been A LOT of instances across the country in the past few months where Crestron has offered to significantly reduce an integrators cost to stay with their products. Zektor has started to form alliances with other companies in the industry to combat Crestron. As an example when you purchase a Zektor switch and a Sherbourn amplifier you receive a 5% discount from normal dealer cost. In all of our future product releases, the first drivers and modules will be for C4. ZigBee is also in our future plans to work with C4.All large brands downplay competitors until they start to make an impact on their business and then they do the predictable thing that Crestron has done with this new product announcement. To call it a "C4 Killer" is arrogant at the very least. We convert deals every day from Crestron, but we probably don't even show up on their radar, which is a good thing.This is a very common strategy especially in the PC market. Dell is ruthless and will take a large deal at or below their cost just to keep it out of the hands of their competitors and for the potential press a notable installation might bring. Crestron has the size, product offering and financial ability to employ this same model if they choose to in certain cases. It seems that there are a lot of C4 loyalists that wouldn't move over or back to Crestron regardless of what they offer. Have a profitable day.Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 ZigBee is also in our future plans to work with C4.Best post today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idefendu Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I just recently contracted to have C4 installed in my new home. My previous home was about 2500 sq ft (1/2 the current) and had a Crestron AV2 system. I went with C4 in the new home because my Crestron experience was just horrible. Mostly it came down to the programming side and the cost. Time and time again I updated my AV system and then could not locate the programmer who last worked on my Crestron system. Twice the integrators went out of business and both times the companies made a point of "retaining" my software to the point that it was eventually gone and I had to start over. When choosing to go with C4 this time I did so based on the system itself and also because it appeared that any C4 integrator could simply pick up where the other one left off, and that gave me a small sense of comfort. Frankly, I would prefer an even more open system. I would love the ability to add a dimmer to my install without having to call an integrator---if I screw it up, well I will gladly pay to have a pro fix it. I truly believe that there are alot of people like me who are more than just users....more like enthusiasts. Anyhow, a Crestron guy tried to convince me to wait for this Prodigy thing and when I said I could not wait he claimed he could do Adagio for the same or less then C4. Bottom line is, I felt burned by Crestron and I didn't want to go back. When you spend near 6 figures for a home system, you expect that when HD comes along you can add that feature without spending another 5g. Unfortunately, that was my experience with Crestron and it soured me. I wish them the best, but, if they want to compete with C4 they are gonna have to make people like me feel that they are not going to be slowly bled to death. C4, I think, should take a lesson from that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 ^No, this is the best post today. Very well put and none of the usual stuff about "how come I can't program it myself...?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebery Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 This goes out to James (GoGo Delicious):James,What is your take on the Prodigy system? Will you even carry it?Thankstebery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoGo Delicious Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 This goes out to James (GoGo Delicious):James,What is your take on the Prodigy system? Will you even carry it?ThanksteberyMy take is that it does fit a certain market segment and the fact that the end user will be able to program it will be a plus. As far as carrying it we will. Since we are a Crestron dealer we carry the entire line. As a side note, and I mentioned this before, we do not do very many installs from walk-in clients. All of our business comes from Architects and Interior Designers, with Architects making up 95%+ of the work we get. With that said, the Prodigy from Crestron is not something that we would spec in a normal job. We are listed with Crestron as commercial dealer but we also do residential. The residential jobs we do are large in that they border on commercial. On these jobs we are pulling Fiber for AV & Data distribution and reducing the usage of Cat5 (phone sys. still uses cat5 as do some of the data ports in the rooms), they use centralized lighting control systems, commercial HVAC systems, commercial fire systems/sprinklers and security alarms (No ADT or Brink's here). This is stuff that the typical home does not have.The Prodigy is definitely not designed for the type of residential market work we do nor is it designed for commercial applications. Crestron's Prodigy is aimed more at the smaller residential installs where budgets are much more sensitive and less elastic. These are customers that want to move up from Logitech Harmony to something that is little more powerful and that they can program themselves. Will we sell it the Prodigy from Crestron? Yes. Of course. Will it be a focus product for us. No. I think once it hit the streets we may get more "walk-in" traffic inquiring about the Prodigy system and if a client is interested in it we will sell it.Any other questions let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebery Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Thanks for the reply James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4user Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 It doesn't even have a GUI. POS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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