House Renovation adding C4

[bapodra]

Hi all, 

I am working with my architect on putting final designs together for a total house renovation and remodel. 

I have chosen Control4 as the platform of choice, depending on how over budget I end up going with the build, I want to be able to scale the system up as when I can afford to. I will be ensuring all cabling is run, i.e x4 Cat6 to each TV location, speaker cabling etc etc.  

I will have 4 reception rooms, with 3 of them having 75" TV's and B&O Atmos soundbar and the other having a Klipsch 5.1.2 setup (existing equipment) I am going down the Video matrix route as I will be using SkyQ as a video source. 

I don't really require audio house-wide, so my question is do the sound bars connect back to the TV via eARC (to get the Atmos) or do they connect back to Video Matrix (HDAnywhere) ? or do I need a Triad AMP? The Klipsch will be connecting to an existing Denon AMP. 

Initially my main things that I must have are:

• Video Distribution
• CCTV + Gate control and Video intercom
• Heating

Anything else that I get is a bonus

 

 

[SMHarman]

What TVs. Some integrate way better than others.

Matrix vs stand alone. Matrix pure costs up but potentially saves in sky hardware purchases. Do these TVs ever need to be in perfect sync or does that sky kit share a DVR. You may be better placed skipping the matrix but thinking how to conceal the STB hardware instead.

Think about lighting now. With Sky I assume you are a UK install so they 110v is not for you but switch placement and choice of integrative switch hardware is something to think about now.

[bapodra]

1 hour ago, SMHarman said:

What TVs. Some integrate way better than others.

Matrix vs stand alone. Matrix pure costs up but potentially saves in sky hardware purchases. Do these TVs ever need to be in perfect sync or does that sky kit share a DVR. You may be better placed skipping the matrix but thinking how to conceal the STB hardware instead.

Think about lighting now. With Sky I assume you are a UK install so they 110v is not for you but switch placement and choice of integrative switch hardware is something to think about now.
 

I currently use Samsung TV's Q6/Q9 but they are not very good with my Denon AMP and have loads of handshake issues. New TV's will be either Sony or LG which I believe do work well with C4. As stated, most of the rooms apart from 1 will be using a Sound Bar and one room will dedicated home cinema. 

Yes, I am in the UK. I can easily have Sky Boxes locally and hidden, even using Fibre HDMI if need be for longer runs if required. No BluRay player required and maybe a console in one of the rooms. I think you have convinced me that a Matrix may not be required after all. I assume C4 can still be used to control input selection, change channel etc? 

Sky in the UK is satellite television. 

So I guess, C4 controller in the rack with the rest of the network gear ( UniFi - Dream Machine Pro, XG-16 and Gen2 48 PoE switch(s) )

 

[tdougray]

Just bear in mind if you go sky locally the sky q minis do not support 4K so unless you can have skyq 2tb at each location you will not get 4K. You will not go far wrong with LG Oled and also something to bear in mind, if I’m correct the B&O sound bar doesn’t have upward firing speakers built in for Atmos but instead uses electronics to fool you. 

[SMHarman]

LG, Sony and TCL Roku TVs all play nice.

https://drivers.control4.com/solr/drivers/browse?q=Lg

Is a good place to check for compatibility.

[SMHarman]

Also your dealer should know about this driver for sky. Paid for but best.

http://www.chowmainsoft.com/uk-sky

[SMHarman]

Just bear in mind if you go sky locally the sky q minis do not support 4K so unless you can have skyq 2tb at each location you will not get 4K. You will not go far wrong with LG Oled and also something to bear in mind, if I’m correct the B&O sound bar doesn’t have upward firing speakers built in for Atmos but instead uses electronics to fool you. 

Hmm. Is the B&O existing equipment?

[bapodra]

14 minutes ago, SMHarman said:

44 minutes ago, tdougray said:

Just bear in mind if you go sky locally the sky q minis do not support 4K so unless you can have skyq 2tb at each location you will not get 4K. You will not go far wrong with LG Oled and also something to bear in mind, if I’m correct the B&O sound bar doesn’t have upward firing speakers built in for Atmos but instead uses electronics to fool you. 

Hmm. Is the B&O existing equipment?

No, its not existing... any other recommendation ? 

[tdougray]

5 minutes ago, bapodra said:

No, its not existing... any other recommendation ? 

Well the Sonos Arc has just been released and has had rave reviews. Even if you don’t use Sonos for music and just as a sound bar 

[bapodra]

6 minutes ago, tdougray said:

Well the Sonos Arc has just been released and has had rave reviews. Even if you don’t use Sonos for music and just as a sound bar 

I use Sonos play 1 and play 5 at the moment but I read they don't really play nice with C4. 

I am now leaning toward dumping the separate system and just having sound bars in all the rooms with TV's. 

[tdougray]

Your quite correct with the integration but as a soundbar for tv it would be fine. I have a beam in the kitchen but only use it for the tv and works great. I use native for Home audio 

[bapodra]

What would my setup look like?

C4 Controller - Brains of the automation with relevant drivers
Networking - UniFi - Dream Machine Pro, Switching
Hikvision NVR
QNAP NAS
x4 Wall Touch Screens
x4 Neeo Remotes

Thats assuming no Audio or Video distribution....

[bapodra]

Based on research only, this is how I see my initial deployment.

Security System:
X2 - Hikvision Door Station (Gate and Front Door)
X5 – Hikvision 4MP ColorVu IP Outdoor Camera

Entry:
Control4 C4 10" In-Wall Screen and Backbox

All AV equipment to be left locally, no video distribution required

Reception Room 1
LG OLED 65/75"
B&O Beosound Stage
SkyQ Mini
Control4 C4-EA1-POE-V2
Control4 Neeo Remote
Syncbox 

Reception Room 2 
LG OLED 65/75"
B&O Beosound Stage
SkyQ 2TB (Main Box)
Control4 C4-EA1-POE-V2
Control4 Neeo Remote
Syncbox 

Reception Room 3
LG OLED 65/75"
Denon AMP (existing)
Klipsch 5.1.2 (existing)
SkyQ Mini 
Control4 C4-EA1-POE-V2
Control4 Neeo Remote
Syncbox 

Snug (Kids) 
LG OLED 65/75"
B&O Beosound Stage
SkyQ Mini (aware you can only use 3 at once)
Control4 C4-EA1-POE-V2
Control4 Neeo Remote
Syncbox 

Kitchen / Dinner
Control4 C4 10" In-Wall Screen and Backbox
Heatmiser neoStat Programmable Thermostat

Upstairs Landing 
Control4 C4 10" In-Wall Screen and Backbox
Heatmiser neoStat Programmable Thermostat

Equipment Room 
Control4 PE-08I PowerPak 8I 8-Outlet Surge Protected, Intelligent Power Distribution Unit
Control4 C4-EA5-V2
Hikvision DS-7616NI-K2-16P
Heatmiser neoHub
Heatmiser NeoStat-Hw - Hot Water Programmer
UniFi Dream Machine Pro
UniFi Gen2 48port PoE Switch (may require x2)
QNAP 8 Bay Rack Mounted NAS

WiFi
x4 - UniFi Nano HD

Misc  
Control4 Square Dual Load Dimmer - Outdoor Lighting control only
Budget depending, I may look to put lighting control in key areas. 

[tdougray]

3 hours ago, bapodra said:

Reception Room 1
LG OLED 65/75"
B&O Beosound Stage
SkyQ Mini
Control4 C4-EA1-POE-V2
Control4 Neeo Remote
Syncbox 

Reception Room 2 
LG OLED 65/75"
B&O Beosound Stage
SkyQ 2TB (Main Box)
Control4 C4-EA1-POE-V2
Control4 Neeo Remote
Syncbox 

Reception Room 3
LG OLED 65/75"
Denon AMP (existing)
Klipsch 5.1.2 (existing)
SkyQ Mini 
Control4 C4-EA1-POE-V2
Control4 Neeo Remote
Syncbox 

Snug (Kids) 
LG OLED 65/75"
B&O Beosound Stage
SkyQ Mini (aware you can only use 3 at once)
Control4 C4-EA1-POE-V2
Control4 Neeo Remote

As advised earlier apart from reception 2 all other rooms will not have 4K available through Sky 

[bapodra]

28 minutes ago, tdougray said:

As advised earlier apart from reception 2 all other rooms will not have 4K available through Sky 

Yes thats fine, as that the same issue I have currently. 

Any TV's using Sky Mini would use native Apps on the TV (Netflix, Amazon and Disney) with the scope of using C4 to control the app it used based on user selection. 

The Main sky box can be used for 4K content as well as the integrated streaming services excluding Amazon. 

Does my draft kit look like a working solution? 

[SMHarman]

4 10in in-wall touch screens is spendy, especially if you also have the Neeo Remote in those locations.

I'd consider the need for all of those and / or all at that size and / or all as I'm wall.

Really think about why / what you want them for in those locations and if that is the best spend.

Put a POE Ethernet drop to each site so you can go back and fit later.

Get a portable one that you can try in each location, if it is just a couple of things you want to do then you can put a keypad there. Eg by the front door a home/away button, or a door lock that will automatically do that instead.

They look nice but also have a ongoing cost to update compared to light switch. Spend this money on automated lighting.

[bapodra]

5 minutes ago, SMHarman said:

4 10in in-wall touch screens is spendy, especially if you also have the Neeo Remote in those locations.

I'd consider the need for all of those and / or all at that size and / or all as I'm wall.

Really think about why / what you want them for in those locations and if that is the best spend.

Put a POE Ethernet drop to each site so you can go back and fit later.

Get a portable one that you can try in each location, if it is just a couple of things you want to do then you can put a keypad there. Eg by the front door a home/away button, or a door lock that will automatically do that instead.

They look nice but also have a ongoing cost to update compared to light switch. Spend this money on automated lighting.

Ahh some things that I never knew! 

The in-wall touchscreens were 2 downstairs, entry and kitchen and the other 2 were upstairs either side of the landing. 

The Neeo were to be in the reception rooms... 

Maybe I could drop 2 touch-screen as dont really need them upstairs as we all have iPhones/iPads etc and can easily use for opening gate, checking CCTV etc etc. 

[SMHarman]

No, its not existing... any other recommendation ? 

I see an IP driver for the B&O in the database. Go for it.

[eggzlot]

4 minutes ago, bapodra said:

Ahh some things that I never knew! 

The in-wall touchscreens were 2 downstairs, entry and kitchen and the other 2 were upstairs either side of the landing. 

The Neeo were to be in the reception rooms... 

Maybe I could drop 2 touch-screen as dont really need them upstairs as we all have iPhones/iPads etc and can easily use for opening gate, checking CCTV etc etc. 

A touch screen by the entries is good for alarm purposes and stuff.  Any place you would consider high traffic/heavy usage.  I have 4 in wall and 1 mobile.  It is a little overkill to be frank.  A lot can be accomplished with keypads, voice commands, etc.  Most people have their phones on them too so in a pinch can always pull up the mobile app.  The big selling point for the touchscreens is the intercom feature.  If you are using a door station with video support, and you have a big house, it is helpful to talk to someone at the door - let them know you are coming, etc.  

[SMHarman]

Ahh some things that I never knew! 
The in-wall touchscreens were 2 downstairs, entry and kitchen and the other 2 were upstairs either side of the landing. 
The Neeo were to be in the reception rooms... 
Maybe I could drop 2 touch-screen as dont really need them upstairs as we all have iPhones/iPads etc and can easily use for opening gate, checking CCTV etc etc. 

So what I'm saying is the light switches. Original C4 light switches are still going strong.

The original, and 2nd Gen wall screens are now end of life. Just like your original flip phone or iPad or your iPhone. You need to budget that these panels will be being rebought every 5 years or so.

Light switches and keypads, not so much.

[bapodra]

7 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

A touch screen by the entries is good for alarm purposes and stuff.  Any place you would consider high traffic/heavy usage.  I have 4 in wall and 1 mobile.  It is a little overkill to be frank.  A lot can be accomplished with keypads, voice commands, etc.  Most people have their phones on them too so in a pinch can always pull up the mobile app.  The big selling point for the touchscreens is the intercom feature.  If you are using a door station with video support, and you have a big house, it is helpful to talk to someone at the door - let them know you are coming, etc.  

if someone presses the intercom at the gate, do all mobile phones also ring? I might need to go visit a C4 dealer for a demo... 

[eggzlot]

26 minutes ago, bapodra said:

if someone presses the intercom at the gate, do all mobile phones also ring? I might need to go visit a C4 dealer for a demo... 

depending on what doorstation

you have a Hikvision Doorstation.  to the best of my knowledge you will not get video on the T3, though I could be wrong.  If Hikvision has their own app, then that app could be set up to your mobile devices.

if its this model it says it has an app: https://us.hikvision.com/en/products/more-products/video-intercom/door-station/3-mp-outdoor-wi-fi-smart-doorbell-camera-ds-hd1

[bapodra]

49 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

depending on what doorstation

you have a Hikvision Doorstation.  to the best of my knowledge you will not get video on the T3, though I could be wrong.  If Hikvision has their own app, then that app could be set up to your mobile devices.

if its this model it says it has an app: https://us.hikvision.com/en/products/more-products/video-intercom/door-station/3-mp-outdoor-wi-fi-smart-doorbell-camera-ds-hd1

I assume for better integration C4 Door Station and CCTV is advised? I guess programming, once the Door station is activated then display CCTV Camera 1? 

[Cyknight]

WHY are you investing in those ridiculous ATmos soundbars? Quality of it is below a simple 5.1 inceiling setup and much more costly (and still less visually appealing then not seeing anything)

If you already got suckered into them and have them...well I wish your dealer the best of luck

[Unsocialtoaster]

If you have a C4 doorstation (DS2) or another brand which is compatible (the list isnt huge but is growing) then the camera from that will display when doorbell is pressed (although you could program it to show a different camera if required)

Control4 do sell their own branded CCTV cameras, but you don't have to have them, quite a lot of other brands are supported.