TexasBill Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Preamble: First let me say that the Wemo and LIFx support people (while not fast) have been excellent and helped a lot. I will also say that Alan Chow with Chowmain drivers is fantastic and has helped a lot including doing an update to a couple of the drivers. Orbi's first tier support is really quite good - their 2nd tier has never responded so I have no idea how good or bad they are technically - only bad responders. That being said - I have 22 Wemo plugs and about 25 LIFX BR30s and a couple of lIF Z strips. These worked on my Google Mesh but not on the Orbi - I have found the wireless on the Orbi less powerful than I had imagined and the signal strength only allows me to get 30 mbps no matter where I am in the house. The biggest change was changing the MTU size from the default of 1500 to 1472 The Control 4 channels on my system are WELL above the channel 11 that we ended up using for Orbi - this works best for me but you should try others. Remember that it will take time for the cloud services of LIFX and WEMO to update and reconfigure when you change channels. Check your ping times - what I found was that the interference and large MTU size was breaking up the packets and they were timing out etc. My ping times are now down under 60 ms for hte most part and less than 10 percent of the packets are dropping. One must essentially (I will check this now that I have things working - I may start adding back some of the prior things that I disabled) gut the orbi system removing all traces of the ^E features that you wanted - and make it be a bare bones system with none of the high end features. As I successfully add ack things, i will try and update this thread so that those who follow will not have to have four weeks of a house gone psycho. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Uhm... So far this reads primarily as a warning to just stay away from Orbi. What is that 60ms ping time on? If that's local, well that's not good at all (in fact, it's terrible). If it's to the 'net, well it's the acceptable range. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBill Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 7 hours ago, Cyknight said: Uhm... So far this reads primarily as a warning to just stay away from Orbi. What is that 60ms ping time on? If that's local, well that's not good at all (in fact, it's terrible). If it's to the 'net, well it's the acceptable range. uhhh - not trying to sell anyone on getting one - I would return i if I could. I am not happy. Since I am about $1600 into it I am a little stuck. The GOOGLE mesh worked fine - I thought thata this would be faster bigger and better. It is not - the WIFI is not as powerful as the google, there are way more problems - and I am still having issues. Read the above as things that I have done that have made it better and if you have an ORBI and are stuck with it and trying to make it work - here are things that I found were better. I am VERY interested in anyone else that has an ORBI and hearing their experience and if they got it working. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBill Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 Regarding ping times - I was having 500-1200 ms ping times - time outs all over the place - the "fix" for that was the 1472 MTU change from 1500. It is not good at the moment but at lease I am connecting and not timng out. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 I regularly install Orbi pro as my main mesh systems. Never have a problem getting into the gig speed 600s+mbps wifi range. .I am not the most enthusiastic about their cloud software which is sometimes a little crazy acting. Sounds like you are having major environment issues… curious have you tried your wifi on a fresh reboot without the zigbee networks online? Are you able to scan throughput to know if your devices are in good spots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 By the way.. Just to add to this. Do we have any other customers using our LIFX V3 driver (or any UDP based LIFX Control4 driver on their Orbi system?). Our LIFX V1 and V2 drivers are cloud based (so, they work), but the UDP ones seem broken. The LIFX Z strips appear to connect, but can't be controlled. The BR30's and A19's on the other hand simply appear completely disconnected (and our driver doesn't seem to be even receiving any data. But broadcasting still seems to work). We don't have access to a Wifi 6 Orbi system inhouse to test, but, we strongly suspect its related to the network / orbi system at the moment (as the only other system we came across with issues was another Mesh based system, but we haven't come across anyone using systems like Ruckus or Ubiquiti with issues). The lights do work in the LIFX app (but, we're not sure if the App is using the UDP to communicate, or its using the Cloud comms) We've been banging our heads against the wall for the past week to try to determine why this is happening (and unfortunately, there is no easy way to capture packet traces in this case remotely to even establish if they're hitting the C4 box) Anyone have any ideas on Orbi which settings may affect this kind of traffic (as I've given it a play too, and I can't see anything that might be an issue). Thanks, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Control4Savant said: I regularly install Orbi pro as my main mesh systems. Never have a problem getting into the gidspeed 600s+mbps wifi range. .I am not the most enthusiastic about their cloud software which is sometimes a little crazy acting. Sounds like you are having major environment issues… curious have you tried your wifi on a fresh reboot without the zigbee networks online? Are you able to scan throughput to know if your devices are in good spots? Any chance you have experience with LIFX on them and a UDP LIFX driver? As per above, I suspect Bill's system isn't passing the UDP along correctly either, or it might be that the LIFX units are returning feedback via broadcasts (but, stuff like this is always difficult to diagnose) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 21 hours ago, Andrew luecke said: Any chance you have experience with LIFX on them and a UDP LIFX driver? As per above, I suspect Bill's system isn't passing the UDP along correctly either, or it might be that the LIFX units are returning feedback via broadcasts (but, stuff like this is always difficult to diagnose) No but I do still have one LIFX bulb in my laundry room and some used Orbi APs so if I get a chance i’ll hook them up on a different network and see what traffic I notice. I have not used the driver in any system so I unfortunately dont have any guidance there..always stuck with Hue for RGB control in Control4. Andrew luecke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBill Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 On 10/19/2022 at 9:19 PM, Control4Savant said: I regularly install Orbi pro as my main mesh systems. Never have a problem getting into the gig speed 600s+mbps wifi range. .I am not the most enthusiastic about their cloud software which is sometimes a little crazy acting. Sounds like you are having major environment issues… curious have you tried your wifi on a fresh reboot without the zigbee networks online? Are you able to scan throughput to know if your devices are in good spots? They have had my system at level 2 support (I have a PRO contract for support) and they have not called me for a week - today when I called in they said that they were sending my system for a refund. Tonight two of my THREE satellites - th wireless ones went off line and when I called in they said - they are too far apart to connect - I said that they were 20 feet from the router line of sight with nothing in between - They said we are refunding your money. I hungup and took the Orbi system down - put the GOOGLE mesh that I had removed back in and was up in 20 minutes. I did not realize/remember how good a decent network really was - everything responding again - Wow Personally - I would not recommend he ORBI 960 system and here is why. 1. it does not work with OFX bulbs or theZ strips 2. the wireless signal is not very powerful - it had more dead spots than you could imagine in my house. 3. the best/highest WIFI speed I could get was 40 MBPS and some of the lowest spots were right near the satellites. If they were not giving me full credit I would be selling them cheap or setting them on fire in the courtyard while taking a video. The worst home automation 60 days of my life. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBill Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 More testing in the monring of the new V3 drivers - but they appear t be immediately working on the Google Mesh network - no failures yet EVERYTHING snapped to attention when google went back on line. at least so far. I will post more when I have rsted. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, TexasBill said: More testing in the moring of the new V3 drivers - but they appear t be immediately working on the Google Mesh network - no failures yet EVERYTHING snapped to attention when google went back on line. at least so far. I will post more when I have rsted. Bill So.. Just to confirm, the BR30's, A19's and the LIFX Z Strips appear to be working? If so, I am going to put a BIG fat warning in the FAQ of the LIFX driver ASAP I've always advised against Orbi gear in the past, but if they're refunding your money, it sounds like the issues are even bigger than I thought.. But yes, thats one of the big problems with Mesh systems (and its always better to try to get some cables wired between the points). The signal will appear strong irrespective of the actual inter-link strength and mesh systems tend to be more likely to mess with the traffic too and cause other issues Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 49 minutes ago, TexasBill said: They have had my system at level 2 support (I have a PRO contract for support) and they have not called me for a week - today when I called in they said that they were sending my system for a refund. Tonight two of my THREE satellites - th wireless ones went off line and when I called in they said - they are too far apart to connect - I said that they were 20 feet from the router line of sight with nothing in between - They said we are refunding your money. I hungup and took the Orbi system down - put the GOOGLE mesh that I had removed back in and was up in 20 minutes. I did not realize/remember how good a decent network really was - everything responding again - Wow Personally - I would not recommend he ORBI 960 system and here is why. 1. it does not work with OFX bulbs or theZ strips 2. the wireless signal is not very powerful - it had more dead spots than you could imagine in my house. 3. the best/highest WIFI speed I could get was 40 MBPS and some of the lowest spots were right near the satellites. If they were not giving me full credit I would be selling them cheap or setting them on fire in the courtyard while taking a video. The worst home automation 60 days of my life. Bill I mean… line of sight doesnt negate your RF environment. It sounds to me like you are just randomly placing them which is not how you setup a mesh or any wifi…but 960 is also just the consumer line and full of lots of marketing stuff. The pro line has some performance and configuration advantages. I would never have google mesh or Eero in my home but thats my .02… glad you got your money back, they are certainly not cheap either way. Remote support cant properly measure your RF environment, and more technical networking gear has always caused more issues with smart home stuff because of the more advanced traffic management verse the unmanaged and plug-n-play IoT systems like Google Mesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBill Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 On 10/20/2022 at 9:39 PM, Andrew luecke said: So.. Just to confirm, the BR30's, A19's and the LIFX Z Strips appear to be working? If so, I am going to put a BIG fat warning in the FAQ of the LIFX driver ASAP I've always advised against Orbi gear in the past, but if they're refunding your money, it sounds like the issues are even bigger than I thought.. But yes, thats one of the big problems with Mesh systems (and its always better to try to get some cables wired between the points). The signal will appear strong irrespective of the actual inter-link strength and mesh systems tend to be more likely to mess with the traffic too and cause other issues Andy First of all - they have not agreed to refund my money yet... I am supposed to hear on Monday. Your Version 3 driver is fantastic and with the Google Mesh it is simply amazing. Thank you for all your help - it is and was really appreciated. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBill Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 On 10/20/2022 at 10:15 PM, Control4Savant said: I mean… line of sight doesnt negate your RF environment. It sounds to me like you are just randomly placing them which is not how you setup a mesh or any wifi…but 960 is also just the consumer line and full of lots of marketing stuff. The pro line has some performance and configuration advantages. I would never have google mesh or Eero in my home but thats my .02… glad you got your money back, they are certainly not cheap either way. Remote support cant properly measure your RF environment, and more technical networking gear has always caused more issues with smart home stuff because of the more advanced traffic management verse the unmanaged and plug-n-play IoT systems like Google Mesh. I don't have my money back yet - but hope to hear on Monday. The Orbi 960 had a LARGE number of configuration options - we used all of them and it will did not work. I have WIFI monitors and the mesh was set up0 appropriately - I worked with Control 4 tech support (phenomenal by the way there as well) and we moved all the other RF out of the way and tried all the channels for the WIFI and channel 11 was the best but it was still not reliable. The Google Mesh works a treat in my house. It also works well with WEMO plugs and LIFx devices as well. I would highly recommend the Google mesh network personally. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 51 minutes ago, TexasBill said: I don't have my money back yet - but hope to hear on Monday. The Orbi 960 had a LARGE number of configuration options - we used all of them and it will did not work. I have WIFI monitors and the mesh was set up0 appropriately - I worked with Control 4 tech support (phenomenal by the way there as well) and we moved all the other RF out of the way and tried all the channels for the WIFI and channel 11 was the best but it was still not reliable. The Google Mesh works a treat in my house. It also works well with WEMO plugs and LIFx devices as well. I would highly recommend the Google mesh network personally. Bill Oh, well good luck with the refund still. Again, Google Mesh is specifically designed to work with every IoT as easy as possible so no surprise there… that is not advanced not secure networking in any way but thats a different conversation. These consumer use designed “configurations” are a half measured in-between and something is obviously not right. My point is just that Netgear makes many levels of tech and IMO as a professional, the consumer grade performance stuff is always junk. I’v never liked a Nighthawk router in my life. Ubiquity thrives and selling enterprise grade stuff at a consumer level price. If you want to spend money on a performance mesh, buy the Pro Orbi for the same price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBill Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 On 10/23/2022 at 11:00 AM, Control4Savant said: Oh, well good luck with the refund still. Again, Google Mesh is specifically designed to work with every IoT as easy as possible so no surprise there… that is not advanced not secure networking in any way but thats a different conversation. These consumer use designed “configurations” are a half measured in-between and something is obviously not right. My point is just that Netgear makes many levels of tech and IMO as a professional, the consumer grade performance stuff is always junk. I’v never liked a Nighthawk router in my life. Ubiquity thrives and selling enterprise grade stuff at a consumer level price. If you want to spend money on a performance mesh, buy the Pro Orbi for the same price. I have gotten my money back now for the ORBI960 as well as the trial that I did for the Google 6e (the new one) Neither of them "worked" in my house and it was very discouraging to fail after trying so hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 4 hours ago, TexasBill said: I have gotten my money back now for the ORBI960 as well as the trial that I did for the Google 6e (the new one) Neither of them "worked" in my house and it was very discouraging to fail after trying so hard. Just to confirm, the lifx didn't work on the Google either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBill Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 On 11/7/2022 at 1:10 PM, Andrew luecke said: Just to confirm, the lifx didn't work on the Google either? The LIFX works just fine on the OLD STANDARD GOOGLE mesh - it does NOT work on the new 6e Google Mesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 21 hours ago, TexasBill said: The LIFX works just fine on the OLD STANDARD GOOGLE mesh - it does NOT work on the new 6e Google Mesh. I might have to put a warning for all Mesh Wifi products then (and orbi specifically).. It sucks, but unfortunately, may be the case (the same warning would apply to both LIFX and TPLink, because the architecture is similar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBill Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 On 11/22/2022 at 5:24 PM, Andrew luecke said: I might have to put a warning for all Mesh Wifi products then (and orbi specifically).. It sucks, but unfortunately, may be the case (the same warning would apply to both LIFX and TPLink, because the architecture is similar) My experience with the OLD/STANDARD Google MESH WiFi is that is "just works". Everything I hook up to it works fine. The speed is good - I have gigabit internet and get 750-800 download and 50 up. I just thought that if this just worked that others would as well and the simply did not. I really like the Lifx and Wemo drivers from Chowmain... they really work well - even better than the original drivers did and that is saying something. They also have the best support I have ever seen - particularly from a totally different country. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBill Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 The thread wanted me to start a new thread - but since it has to do EXACTLY with the topic in this thread I am going to continue. WIFI7 is coming out soon an I am going to want to update my house to a newer and faster system. SO - I am wanting to have switches and light bulbs that work with MESH networks and WAP3 specifically - does anyone know of or have working any "switches" meaning electrical plugs that work with advanced networks that use WPA3?\ i sure would like a recommendation that works. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 9 minutes ago, TexasBill said: The thread wanted me to start a new thread - but since it has to do EXACTLY with the topic in this thread I am going to continue. WIFI7 is coming out soon an I am going to want to update my house to a newer and faster system. SO - I am wanting to have switches and light bulbs that work with MESH networks and WAP3 specifically - does anyone know of or have working any "switches" meaning electrical plugs that work with advanced networks that use WPA3?\ i sure would like a recommendation that works. Bill I am not aware of any smart home products that use wpa3. So make sure your bulbs will work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 And I would recommend eero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 9 hours ago, TexasBill said: WIFI7 is coming out soon an I am going to want to update my house to a newer and faster system. Don't upgrade to Wifi 7 for the sake of Wifi 7. The world is yet to catch up to wifi6, let alone 6e. Unless you're running pre wave two wifi 5(AC), wait until at least all devices can run wifi 6. You wont find WPA3 smart lighting for some time yet. some time I suspect will be many year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I think Wifi7 is a bit different to Wifi 6 though. Wifi 6 didn't really have many advantages except for high density and speed (at least from my understanding). Wifi 7 however introduces low latency of less than 5ms, and the tests I've seen seem to confirm low latency (120hz is 8.3ms between frames). Wifi 6 also only introduced up to 9.6Gbps. Wifi 7 is up to 46gbps, so it might open up new AV applications (Raw Ultra HDMI is 42.6gbps for data). I think because of the advantages, we might see things a bit quicker (in new applications) That being said, at least for unifi7, they don't implement most of the useful wifi7 features yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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