Advice on smart security cameras (Hikvision, ClareOne, others)

[mattyp]

Hey C4 pros! We recently bought a house that came with a Control 4 system.

I'm looking to have smart security cameras set up. Something that has zone-based AI detection, smart notifications, etc.

The house came with Hikvision cameras already installed, but they aren't functioning as "smart" cameras. I.e., I have to manually review footage using their clunky app. The C4 integration also broke after I changed our ISP.

I spoke with a dealer who recommended replacing everything with ClareOne cameras. They have the features I want, but a full rip-and-replace feels excessive. I also can't find any recent reviews of ClareOne—and anything I do find is negative.

Is ClareOne a reliable security camera system? Given the choice between Hikvision and ClareOne—what's better? Or should I consider something else altogether?

The alternative to replacing everything is to try and figure out how to get the Hikvision cameras to work the way I want them to, but so far I haven't gotten clear answers on whether that's possible.

Thanks in advance!

[GregCAMS]

Not a dealer but have had a good experience with the Luma X10 Series Cameras and newer NVR.  The newer X20 series has the smart detection which from other posts seem to work quite well.  Luma also offers a Luma Bridge if you acquire older X10 cameras to integrate to achieve all of the features that their current X20 series provides.  

I did have Hikvision installed in a retail store owned but wasn't integrated with C4.  The cameras were great, however i went thru 2 different NVR's that failed over a period of 40 months.  Others may have had better experience I'm sure and can speak to the C4 integration part.

IMO Luma has been great as platform to use for both user functions and capture of recordings from their own app when needed.

[Cyknight]

1 hour ago, GregCAMS said:

Luma also offers a Luma Bridge if you acquire older X10 cameras to integrate to achieve all of the features that their current X20 series provides.  

Not quite. While the bridge closes a few gaps between the x10 and x20 cameras, it (potentially) does so much more, and does more with X20 cams than x10's. If you want x20 capability, get x20 cameras, don't think the bridge is some sort of upgrade path to make X10 into x20.

 

1 hour ago, mattyp said:

Is ClareOne a reliable security camera system? Given the choice between Hikvision and ClareOne—what's better? Or should I consider something else altogether?

Yes they are reliable as such but I'd stick with HIK or perhaps go Luma or Uniview on camera change. If wanting to keep old  cams, Uniview has good options for smart notifications etc in their NVRS, a better app than HIK and should be able to integrate the old cams just fine.

Current HIK NVRS aren't terrible in their smart work, but I can't say how well or poor your existing HIK cams are. If they're old 720p cameras, no smart NVR will fix that.

 

Honestly, I'd be hesitant to suggest going Clare. It's not bad stuff at all, but it's alarm panel portion has been struggling to make headway, and if one falls.....

Add that Snap has Luma as well as Clare so why keep both long term, and then add that Residio is looking to aquire Snap and is even more likely to keep only one (and Luma is more versatile).....

[mattyp]

Thank you for the input! I've checked out Luma and so far it looks like it checks all the boxes.

And appreciate the intel on Clare's alarm panel--it's something we've been weighing among the options for our security system as well.

I'd love to keep the old system if we can make it work.

So far I've been able to learn out that our NVR model is SC-32P4-4C, if that tells you anything. The security cameras would've been installed no longer than 1.5 years ago, so I would hope they're not a super old model.

Am yet to figure out what the exact camera models are though, waiting on a spare ethernet cable to arrive so I can connect to the NVR.

[mattyp]

Ok, I managed to figure out the model of the cameras. They're SC-328GY-XD-2.8MM.

Edit: I can’t actually locate any information about this specific model.

Thank you again for the help, I know nothing about hardware haha.

Edited April 23 by mattyp
Typo

[Popolou]

As you discovered, they are rebadged Hikvision 8MP cams. Spec sheet here, and a variant of the DS-2CD2383G2 with near-identical specification. If they have an NVR, you can use their IVMS software to connect to it, manage the cameras and control playback. If you are relying on the onboard SD card for footage then you will have a few additional hurdles to overcome for the same result. They're perfectly reasonable cameras from mid-2022 iirc.

For integration, you'd want the Chowmain driver for the full functionality. The standard C4 drivers do work but it is limited, dated and a lot more thought went into the third-party alternative.

[Cyknight]

Yep, S  is just HIK OEM - nothing ammis, and not bad cams.

My suggestion would be to NOT run them through the NVR if you want better motion triggers etc inside a C4 system, but feed them to a PoE switch, reset the NVR to do it that way and indeed use the Chowmain HIK driver - it'll be well worth it's small investment

[Control4Savant]

I installed 87 Clare cams last year. Mostly because of the doorbell option and “waterfall” Ring type live camera layout. 

My major complaint of the turret is theres only one single mm set screw that attaches the camera sphere  and shell to the mounted base. Just one. 

[DanITman]

Just to be clear that all camera systems will not allow you to scrub a timeline inside of Control4.  There is no native NVR integration in Control4 that allows you to do everything through the C4 app.  The closest you are going to get to that is the history integration with the c4 chime doorbell. 

Every other camera will integrate the same with Control4 (with slight variations).  You will be able to view the live feeds and get PTZ control of the camera.  Some cameras might integrate history now.  You can also get push notification on smart alerts (people, cars, animals) depending on the camera and the driver. 

Overall, the best experience for camera and NVR software is Unifi. The app is light years ahead of these other systems and scrubbing a timeline is super easy.  No annual fees to worry about either.  Unifi integrates with Control4 and has the ability to do push notifications on smart events.  The integration requires a paid 3rd party driver.  The doorbell actual works and push notifications are instant. 

[Cyknight]

1 hour ago, DanITman said:

The closest you are going to get to that is the history integration with the c4 chime doorbell. 

 

1 hour ago, DanITman said:

Some cameras might integrate history now.

Luma x20 certainly does do history.

1 hour ago, DanITman said:

Overall, the best experience for camera and NVR software is Unifi

Stated opinion, not fact

[DanITman]

17 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

 

Luma x20 certainly does do history.

Stated opinion, not fact

Does Luma do video clip history or just snapshot like the D2?

I'm all ears for a better experience than Unifi. Please educate us on a better one.  All these Chinese NVRs have shit experiences. 

[Cyknight]

31 minutes ago, DanITman said:

Does Luma do video clip history or just snapshot like the D2?

I'm all ears for a better experience than Unifi. Please educate us on a better one.  All these Chinese NVRs have shit experiences. 

Video clip history.

 

As for the other line: I actually don't particularly like or dislike Unifi's option, but much like there networking gear I'll refrain from installing it due to lack of a support channel (I just had my guys rip out another unifi switch that failed, but we didn't install and don't have paperwork for to rma (at least not quickly) as it took down a complete C4 system as well as the internet for the family) - but my (mild) point was that it's opinion, not fact. You're taking my comment way out of proportion.

So please don't throw a 'please educate us' line at me: you made an opinionated statement in the form of fact: if you feel that it is indeed fact - then the onus of educating all of us is on you.

 

[Control4Savant]

Being opinion doesnt make it untrue. Most NVR software is absolutely trash, completely lack of features or intuitive UI included in consumer crap like Alarm.com

DigitalWatchdog is finally an option from Snap thats worth while. Unifis camera app is easily the best, but I need to use too diverse of a camera type to really use them in most jobs. 

[Cyknight]

42 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

Being opinion doesnt make it untrue.

Nor does it make it true. That's the thing with opinions. But feel feel to argue the facts (as well as the feelings) that fuel your opinion.

[mattyp]

17 hours ago, Popolou said:

As you discovered, they are rebadged Hikvision 8MP cams. Spec sheet here, and a variant of the DS-2CD2383G2 with near-identical specification. If they have an NVR, you can use their IVMS software to connect to it, manage the cameras and control playback. If you are relying on the onboard SD card for footage then you will have a few additional hurdles to overcome for the same result. They're perfectly reasonable cameras from mid-2022 iirc.

Awesome--thank you for the help with identification. I installed IVMS and managing playback is a little less clunky than through the tiny Hik-Connect mobile app, but I still have very limited functionality (e.g., can't actually speed up playback to 2x, 4x, etc.; there are no pins in the timeline showing me people and/or vehicles; no way to set up notifications that I can find).

I managed to get into the NVR by just hard-wiring to it, and here it looks like I can set up zones and notification triggers, which is great! Unfortunately, these notifications don't appear anywhere outside of the local NVR setup. I.e., I don't get them in my Hik-Connect app and I don't see anything in IVMS. But I'm down the rabbit hole now, so will crack it eventually. 

17 hours ago, Popolou said:

For integration, you'd want the Chowmain driver for the full functionality. The standard C4 drivers do work but it is limited, dated and a lot more thought went into the third-party alternative.

This looks great based on what I've searched so far. Assuming it takes some knowledge to set it up though.

12 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Yep, S  is just HIK OEM - nothing ammis, and not bad cams.

My suggestion would be to NOT run them through the NVR if you want better motion triggers etc inside a C4 system, but feed them to a PoE switch, reset the NVR to do it that way and indeed use the Chowmain HIK driver - it'll be well worth it's small investment

Great! Based on some YT videos I've watched, it looks like the PoE will give me more direct access to the cameras + they'll actually appear in SADP (currently they don't!). Agree, it sounds like a good investment.

Appreciate everyone's help--saved me from ripping and replacing a functioning (if somewhat clunky for now) system.

 

On a separate but related note: are there recommended alarm systems for C4? We currently have a quote for Qolsys IQ4, but want to make sure we're installing the right thing for anything we want to do long-term.

[Popolou]

4 hours ago, mattyp said:

Awesome--thank you for the help with identification. I installed IVMS and managing playback is a little less clunky than through the tiny Hik-Connect mobile app, but I still have very limited functionality (e.g., can't actually speed up playback to 2x, 4x, etc.; there are no pins in the timeline showing me people and/or vehicles; no way to set up notifications that I can find).

I managed to get into the NVR by just hard-wiring to it, and here it looks like I can set up zones and notification triggers, which is great! Unfortunately, these notifications don't appear anywhere outside of the local NVR setup. I.e., I don't get them in my Hik-Connect app and I don't see anything in IVMS. But I'm down the rabbit hole now, so will crack it eventually. 

HIkvision (and similar) guides are a little clunky when trying to understand how it all comes together but it is essentially a system where the NVR is central to the wider system. Whenever a change is made on the NVR, it sends that config to the camera in question which does the grunt work. It is meant to be centrally administrative. So if you want a line crossing event, you configure it as a Smart Event on the NVR for that camera, add the schedule it should apply and the triggers. Altogether, any event that is detected will then be fed back to the NVR which logs both the video and the time/event VCA data so that you can easily see it on the timeline (be sure to tick either the Human or Vehicle tickboxes under it). Notifications are configured the same way.

5 hours ago, mattyp said:

Great! Based on some YT videos I've watched, it looks like the PoE will give me more direct access to the cameras + they'll actually appear in SADP (currently they don't!). Agree, it sounds like a good investment.

Yes, depending on the NVR, most pro installs use POE switches for the cameras and you simply add the IP addresses to the NVR for it to do its thing.

Good luck.

[Control4Savant]

2 hours ago, Popolou said:

HIkvision (and similar) guides are a little clunky when trying to understand how it all comes together but it is essentially a system where the NVR is central to the wider system. Whenever a change is made on the NVR, it sends that config to the camera in question which does the grunt work. It is meant to be centrally administrative. So if you want a line crossing event, you configure it as a Smart Event on the NVR for that camera, add the schedule it should apply and the triggers. Altogether, any event that is detected will then be fed back to the NVR which logs both the video and the time/event VCA data so that you can easily see it on the timeline (be sure to tick either the Human or Vehicle tickboxes under it). Notifications are configured the same way.

Yes, depending on the NVR, most pro installs use POE switches for the cameras and you simply add the IP addresses to the NVR for it to do its thing.

Good luck.

I absolutely do not suggest this. Each camera should be set up individually. NVRs are designed to be reactive to a camera, not as the administrator. 

[DanITman]

15 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Video clip history.

 

As for the other line: I actually don't particularly like or dislike Unifi's option, but much like there networking gear I'll refrain from installing it due to lack of a support channel (I just had my guys rip out another unifi switch that failed, but we didn't install and don't have paperwork for to rma (at least not quickly) as it took down a complete C4 system as well as the internet for the family) - but my (mild) point was that it's opinion, not fact. You're taking my comment way out of proportion.

So please don't throw a 'please educate us' line at me: you made an opinionated statement in the form of fact: if you feel that it is indeed fact - then the onus of educating all of us is on you.

 

Unifi does provide free and paid support options. https://ui.com/site-support.  If you want real support it cost money.

Not sure how my statement before should be considered a fact.  Its obvious I was stating my opinion.  If you would like to argue that opinion and provide a better one, go a head. Are you suggesting that from now on, on the forum, you must preface all statements with "I Believe" to make sure people don't get confused on a very subjective topic? 

If there is a better one out there, I honestly would like to know.  If there isn't a better one out there, I think my subjective opinion is strong. 

I really like what I see coming out of Homekit/Apple with the support of Scrypted.

Other contenders are the cloud base systems like Nest and Ring which offer a decent user experience.

[Cyknight]

45 minutes ago, DanITman said:

If you want real support it cost money.

And most companies have that money, and thus support, built into the product.

46 minutes ago, DanITman said:

If you would like to argue

Dan you really need to relax a bit: non of this is intended to be all that serious.

[Control4Savant]

I would 100% take an heavily active community like Unifi or Home assistant for my technical support over paid staffer reading from outdated workflows who half of the time have no idea what im talking about. 

[DanITman]

4 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

And most companies have that money, and thus support, built into the product.

Dan you really need to relax a bit: non of this is intended to be all that serious.

Those companies have a history of going out of business or have shitty support. I'm a fan of paid support models.  I hate lifetime passes as they always tend to go away.  I'm a fan of 4sight to keep c4 in business.

[Popolou]

8 hours ago, Control4Savant said:

I absolutely do not suggest this. Each camera should be set up individually. NVRs are designed to be reactive to a camera, not as the administrator. 

That's not how it works within Hikvision. The NVR must have access to the camera to manage them. Is there something precautionary in your mind?

[Control4Savant]

3 minutes ago, Popolou said:

That's not how it works within Hikvision. The NVR must have access to the camera to manage them. Is there something precautionary in your mind?

I dont know what you are talking about. There is nothing special about HIK. You should set up IP cameras individually and check to make sure NVR settings match. Batch setting cameras via the NVR is the improper way to do it. 

[Popolou]

Like i said, that is not how it works. I've never come across anyone choosing to configure 50+ cameras individually on systems like these when they are purposely designed to be managed via the NVR.

[Control4Savant]

1 hour ago, Popolou said:

Like i said, that is not how it works. I've never come across anyone choosing to configure 50+ cameras individually on systems like these when they are purposely designed to be managed via the NVR.

Thats exactly how it works. There are literally settings on camera UIs not included in the more general NVR config options.  It’s also specifically talked about in many brands knowledge base.  Otherwise you risk mismatched settings.