Books Open: Control4 OS 2.0 Software Release!!!!!!!!

[ILoveC4]

^ That's true. I was using it yesterday prior to the upgrade.

[wappinghigh]

The 4sight interface now has a flash navigator option. This is only available if you are on 2.0.

You dont have to have 2.0 to use the new 4sight interface.......flash.

Right. So what is goin' on here?

As long as Control UI's ipad and iphone programs still give access to navigator, who cares about any 4store apps that won't work on the ipda/iphone? Not a problem. I simply won'y but them. :cool:

We shall see how developers respond to well over 50% of their potential market sitting on the sidelines...

[panamagixxer]

The 4sight interface now has a flash navigator option. This is only available if you are on 2.0.

You dont have to have 2.0 to use the new 4sight interface.......flash.

Right. So what is goin' on here?

As long as Control UI's ipad and iphone programs still give access to navigator' date=' who cares about any 4store apps that won't work on the ipda/iphone? Not a problem. I simply won'y but them. :cool:

We shall see how developers respond to well over 50% of their potential market sitting on the sidelines...[/quote']

I agree

[thecodeman]

On a side note, I'm having a hard time finding Composer HE 2.0....can someone post a link or email it to me?

Thanks!

You can find it in the downloads section of C4Central.com

[ILoveC4]

Thanks codeman, that's a pretty cool site. Props to the guy who started it/thought up doing it =)

[jwhitaker@revit]

developers, dealers, installers, programmers, and users can complain all they want. this one IS NOT ON C4! think about it. apple will not support flash in it's environment. AND the objective-c programming language is OWNED IN ALL IT'S RIGHTS by apple to run on APPLE ONLY DEVICES. do you think apple would give c4 a lease to use their proprietary language? seriously guys. Start complaining on apple forums and let the rest of us enjoy the fact that c4 has delivered use something special.......

[EagleMoon]

developers, dealers, installers, programmers, and users can complain all they want. this one IS NOT ON C4! think about it. apple will not support flash in it's environment. AND the objective-c programming language is OWNED IN ALL IT'S RIGHTS by apple to run on APPLE ONLY DEVICES. do you think apple would give c4 a lease to use their proprietary language? seriously guys. Start complaining on apple forums and let the rest of us enjoy the fact that c4 has delivered use something special.......

What? What are you talking about with "lease on their proprietary language"? Go download the Developer Tools; they're free. (There might be a small charge for the toolkit to develop for iOS -- I don't know.)

But that's completely beside the point. Here's the point: in today's world you have two options for a handheld device to control your Control4 system, the Apple iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch applications from ControlUI and the ridiculously expensive Control4 touch panels. So now, Control4 comes along with the supposedly great new idea for third-party apps but they'll currently only run on their own touch panels because they require Flash.

Well, here's the reality: Apple has had iPhone/iPod Touch for several years now and they have never supported Flash. This isn't news. So Control4 consciously decided to pursue a strategy that prohibits using anything but their own touch panels for the wondrous "to-be-developed" applications.

I don't know why anyone right now would buy one of those clunky Control4 touch panels when they can get an iPad for a fraction of the cost and actually have a device with more than an hour's battery life and that, if they choose, can do a heck of a lot more. What application is going to make a rational person spend three or four times as much for a Control4 touch panel?

Anyone who thinks they are fantastic pieces of hardware should buy themselves an extra 7" from me. Bidding is open.... (But US$0.79 won't get it. )

[jwhitaker@revit]

"What? What are you talking about with "lease on their proprietary language"? Go download the Developer Tools; they're free. (There might be a small charge for the toolkit to develop for iOS -- I don't know.)"

some of that is understandable. sure the sdk is pretty cheap. but it is for developing apps for apples platform! you need apples os to run them!!! do you think for a second that apple is gonna let c4 run an apple os on c4 equipment?

and like i said read the apple sdk license agreement. it states that NO app developed in flash will be accepted as an apple app. end of story.

" So Control4 consciously decided to pursue a strategy that prohibits using anything but their own touch panels for the wondrous "to-be-developed" applications."

also the ipad and ipod apps ARE NOT MADE BY THE COMPANY CONTROL4! so if that app doesn't support c4's apps you are already barking up the wrong tree! it would be up to c4ui to develop a cross platform to support these apps. and even if they couldn't and you had a separate app for the ipad and one for c4 with the same license it would be up to c4ui to come up with a creative way to have them accessible on their app.

just curious to ask you crestron guys here...... does crestrons ipad app support any of their new flash apps / skins?

[jwhitaker@revit]

btw the proprietary language of apple is objective-c. it is copyrighted and all rights are owned by apple. anything in this language will run on an apple only operating system. there is no current lease structure to lease out apple OS of any flavor to any 3rd party hardware platforms. 3rd party hardware platforms may create devices to work with apple OS after a lengthy testing and verification period where they will be given a designation of the interoperability with an apple OS.

[xc420]

I don't see the 4store being very successful. I really don't care that the Ipad won't run a 4store app. I have no desire to ever buy a 4store app. 4store might be good for a few manufactures from increased merchandise sales ie B&D locks and maybe ExtraVeg by advertising that certain drivers are available but that's it.

[EagleMoon]

do you think for a second that apple is gonna let c4 run an apple os on c4 equipment?

That's not the point; no one was asking for Control4 equipment to run OS X or iOS.

My point was that Control4 built an application interface that apparently requires the application to use Flash and thus the application will not run on devices that support the ControlUI interface. And it happens that those devices are currently much better values than the Control4 hardware.

They didn't HAVE to do that. They could have designed a scripting language, with well-defined APIs that could be implemented on different underlying systems: Flash-based for them, something else for ControlUI.

I'm sure they looked at the problem and did what they thought was the best approach. However, from a user's perspective, given the currently available touch screens, that doesn't seem to be obviously true to me.

But that's enough from me on this.

[wappinghigh]

do you think for a second that apple is gonna let c4 run an apple os on c4 equipment?

That's not the point; no one was asking for Control4 equipment to run OS X or iOS.

My point was that Control4 built an application interface that apparently requires the application to use Flash and thus the application will not run on devices that support the ControlUI interface. And it happens that those devices are currently much better values than the Control4 hardware.

They didn't HAVE to do that. They could have designed a scripting language' date=' with well-defined APIs that could be implemented on different underlying systems: Flash-based for them, something else for ControlUI.

I'm sure they looked at the problem and did what they thought was the best approach. However, from a user's perspective, given the currently available touch screens, that doesn't seem to be obviously true to me.

But that's enough from me on this.[/quote']

You know Eaglemoon I'm 100% in agreement with you. You're Spot on. Don't know about you, but what's interesting is how I find I'm using my iPad around/whilst watching TV and movies. And when I'm also using C4/navigator. This is a critical thing Control4 has to consider here. How humans, (ie mere mortals) actually interact with our C4 gear and touch screens. The iPad is actually changing how I go about things in the TV viewing area. I tend to play/search/work/email/use apple apps on the iPad WHILST watching TV or movies. NOT necessarily as an alternative. And this goes for using the SR250 or navigator on the TV. I use these simply as a means to get the TV or movie happening. I don't, nor will I in the future use the TV (ie navigator) for Facebook/surfing/email or using whatever other C4 app becomes available to do this sort of task. A TV is crap for this sort of interactive experience. Many companies have failed on this one, and I don't see why C4 will be any different.

So C4 needs to sit down and observe human nature. Put a couple of us mortals in an observation room, put some security cameras on us and see just HOW we interact with all our gear. I'm sure if they did that they would soon realize just how silly it is to have apps only on their clunky touchscreens, and unavailable on ipads and iPhones.

They seem to be missing some crucial issues here on just how users interact with their equipment.

Anyway. Their problem. They simply won't sell as many apps. If they are difficult to use and not available on all highly portable and user friendly platforms like the iPad, then tuff. People won't buy them. And the 4store will flop.

We'll all just go on using our Apple apps, and leave C4 to simply turn on/off the lights or TV. Really it's up to Control4. If they don't make it a sinch, then they won't sell any applications. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it that's for sure :cool:

[jwhitaker@revit]

i edited this post. i have nothing further to say here. enjoy your ipad app.

[akg4y]

Thanks codeman, that's a pretty cool site. Props to the guy who started it/thought up doing it =)

Who was the guy that thought it up again? Here's a hint:

<---- This guy

[akg4y]

I agree that using Flash which specifically excludes the iPad sucks, but it isnt the only option so Control4 did whatever they wanted to do, thats their right. At the same time one could complain about Apple not allowing Flash in the first place which is something that is very prevalent regardless of ones opinion on how good it is. Apple cannot expect people to cater specifically to them in all cases, and in this case Control4 chose not to. This is Apple's loss more than Control4s because like I said before there will be tons of Android tablets available within the next year. Sure it may take a year or two for them to match Apple's interface and quality but in the end the Control4 users will have an option for a tablet that provides full funcitonality using the method they decided was best.

In my situation for example, I was planning on buying 1 or 2 iPads this year (probably right now if they ran flash) but since they dont Ill hold off and wait until there is a good Android tablet and Android Control4 UI. Then in turn, I will likely purchase some apps from the Android store.

Apple is falling into the same trap they fell into with the PC, except now they have a large enough user base to make it sustainable. Android will be available to all developers and hardware manufacturers and lots of options will be available at lower cost. It will eventually take over the market unless Apple changes its ways, regardless of if Apple makes a better product. It took Android just over a year to surpass Apple in phone software, and they continue to lose share rapidly.

Im not saying one is better or worse, there are a LOT of downsides to letting anyone and everyone develop apps and hardware, but simple fact is it lowers costs and cheaper sells.

[thinslis]

I have an Android phone and an iTouch... I've never paid for an Android app because I don't trust them. I've bought probably 20+ apps for my iTouch.

[ILoveC4]

I have an Android phone and an iTouch... I've never paid for an Android app because I don't trust them. I've bought probably 20+ apps for my iTouch.

You don't trust them? Why? I have bought a handful of apps, ranging from .99 cents to an amount I don't remember because it was in a foreign currency, to the Slingbox App for $29.99.

Why wouldn't you trust them? I have heard of a malicious app or two that were quickly found, but I can't think that is too wide spread. Just read the feedback about the app before you buy it. If someone were going to do something malicious it would be a free app, and it would only last a minute or two...the first person hurt buy it would flag it.

What exactly is it that you don't trust? Google Checkout?

[thinslis]

Yes, I don't trust the Google checkout. I prefer iTunes from my home computer. Just personal preferance I guess. Ignore me =)

[ILoveC4]

Yes, I don't trust the Google checkout. I prefer iTunes from my home computer. Just personal preferance I guess. Ignore me =)

You think someone will still your credit card number? Interesting....well, to each his own.

[EagleMoon]

You think someone will still your credit card number? Interesting....well, to each his own.

It happens. We've had it happen this year and once about two years ago. However, there's no evidence it happened at any online store. The evidence says the first was at a new, small restaurant that did paper tickets and manually-dialed verification and that the second was at an art festival where the vendor did the same thing.

I'm only guessing, but I think, certainly at the art festival, it was because the vendor mis-dialed the verification number and someone had set themselves up with commonly mis-dialed numbers to capture data from such mistakes. The vendor had to re-dial several times before she got an approval code. Within hours there were card-swipe charges at an Esso station in Canada. We hadn't used the card at any other unusual place recently. And we were nowhere near Canada.

So there's some risk in using CC online, but with the process being almost fully automated and secured, I suspect it's less than the risk of using it at small retail outlets hat have to use a manual verification process and paper tickets with your entire number imprinted or that might have some untrustworthy staff.

I'm not sure there's any reason to think the risk of theft is higher with Google than with Apple. But I'm speaking from complete ignorance here. Unlike all the other times when I just make stuff up.

[ILoveC4]

Yeah, I know stealing of card numbers happens, I just wouldn't suspect google. I'm pretty sure your "commonly misdialed numbers" theory is right. At any rate, you just dispute the charge and your done...no big deal.

[akg4y]

Yeah Google is like Paypal, better to have them have your credit card number than hundreds of online retailers all having it. I hate Paypal because their fees are a bit nuts but I use them to make purchases for that simple reason.

I also got a call from my credit card company asking if I had made a $1 charge to iTunes... I said no (I dont even have an iTunes account). They canceled my card and I had a new one at my door the next day at 7:30am. I looked over my card statement and all of my purchases were from major online retailers or local stores for the prior 3 months. I still have no clue how my number was stolen.

[EagleMoon]

At any rate, you just dispute the charge and your done...no big deal.

Except it's a pain to get everything corrected. We use it for all the utilities for both houses plus recurring things like DirecTV, AT&T, Netflix, Vonage, bookclub, tollway tags and a bunch of non-recurring places like Amazon. Royal PITA to have to go through and change. We don't carry a balance on it but we use it instead of cash and we eat out for most dinners and frequent lunches thus lots of transactions every month, so twice in three years is pretty good average, I guess.

But yeah, I trust Google and PayPal more than the mom and pop down the street with a manual dial-up terminal. Actually, not that I don't trust mom and pop, it's the manual process I don't trust.

[Teh D]

btw the proprietary language of apple is objective-c. it is copyrighted and all rights are owned by apple. anything in this language will run on an apple only operating system. there is no current lease structure to lease out apple OS of any flavor to any 3rd party hardware platforms. 3rd party hardware platforms may create devices to work with apple OS after a lengthy testing and verification period where they will be given a designation of the interoperability with an apple OS.

This is complete and utter nonsense. Apple holds no copyrights over objective-c. The incredibly common gcc compiler supports objective-c across many platforms, notably including Linux. Apple holds copyrights over their SDK, just as Control4 holds copyrights over theirs. The language was not created by Apple (or NeXT). It just happened that NeXT liked obj-c better than C and picked that for writing NeXTSTEP, which Jobs brought over to Apple and (through a long and winding road) turned into OS X. As a language, obj-c just didn't gain the popularity of C++ so it ended up mostly restricted to use on Apple products. This is a fairly stupid argument to begin with, considering that both iOS and Control4 are closed platforms. Just closed in different ways. Harping by anyone supporting one side or the other has a pretty fair whiff of hypocrisy. The bottom line is both companies will make choices they feel is in their own best interest that may not interact or work well with what some other company is doing. We don't always have to like these choices, but more often than not we are stuck with them. The only concrete way to change things like this is to vote with your wallet.

[Teh D]

Two things I can think of:

1) On the iPad you could have a VNC app to VNC into a desktop computer and run the apps. Full screen as long as there wasnt a huge delay from the VNC it would be essentially like running the flash on the ipad itself.

2) If JAP can sent 1080p video over ethernet, why cant that be sent (albeit maybe at a slightly lower resolution for the sake of speed) wirelessly to an iPad if an appropriate iPad app was developed to decode the signal back to 'video'? Then just access your C4 controller navigator directly on the iPad.

Anyway in 1 year there will be numerous competing tablets that run Android, have more features, and cost less. They may be slightly less "pretty" just as the iPhone still remains design king, but all in all the Flash navigator will be coming soon to a tablet near you.

1) Now that is the best suggestion yet. Using a remote desktop connection like VNC or RDP would be a much better way for Control4 to support multiple interfaces than the current method of running the interface locally on each device, though it would require a very stable network. I use VNC and RDP from my iPad to my computers all the time. I set up a VNC server with the exact resolution supported by the iPad on each box. Works perfectly. This method would also make upgrades of C4 much, much easier as only the controller would get upgraded. The interfaces would rarely, if ever, need upgrades.

2) I doubt HDCP would allow for something like this, unfortunately. If the Sling folks ever finish porting SlingPlayer Mobile to the iPad, that would certainly be a viable method to get the video signal for the interface to the iPad, but wouldn't help much for key-presses.