strange_brew Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I ordered my 800 as soon as I saw the press release and chatted with my dealer (Shawn LeMay at S&T). My control situation is a 1000, 300, and an I/O. So I'm going to replace the 1000 and 300 with the 800.I'm really excited about this piece of gear - solves two major problems in my case: UI speed and ZigBee reception.Looks like C4 got this one right. But I did find it interesting that they didn't call it the "1300" or "1200". And agree it implies something else in that "1000" range. Maybe for commercial level installs? Who knows, but the 800 is what I was waiting for so I'm all over it.Nice to see Shawn quoted in the article as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamagixxer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So, question for the group on upgrading. I currently have:1000500 for my family room4 of the old controllers (previous to 200) running numerous TVs300 in my new Theater room2x 200's in the basement running a couple TVs there.Speed is OK, great improvement when I upgraded to the 1000 a while back.Would love more speed, what should I replace - if you say everything, I don't want that option.Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 ^Wait until the new HCs hits the street and real end-users report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well_armed Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 HC1000/300 combos should stay in service. Not worth the money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strange_brew Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 HC1000/300 combos should stay in service. Not worth the money...Why do you say that? I can sell my existing gear for about what an 800 will cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You think? Right now the going price for a 1000V3 is less than $500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 But then again, I don't like to talk price... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strange_brew Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You think? Right now the going price for a 1000V3 is less than $500.Errr...you might want to take another look at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisMajor Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It *is* fast, and can be used as a replacement for several controllers.It's got more IO than the HC300, and a faster processor than the HC1000. One of the recent criticisms of Control4 is that by needing an HC1000, *plus* at least one other controller for mid to large sized project (anything over 1 room) is too expensive. This helps out quite a bit on that front.I replaced my HC1000 and an HC300 with the 800, and moved from having 3 ZAPs (one per floor) to using *only* the HC800's ZigBee, and it's just as fast, if not faster. The external antenna and faster ZigBee chip inside helps out quite a bit. Because of the antenna, most devices are fewer hops away from the controller, and with the new chip, ZigBee performance is better. As an example, updates to devices are around 2X faster. Updates use the same channel as everything else, so it's quite an improvement.Yes, those that recently updated to the 1000 could be a bit bitter, but that cannot be avoided. i.e. it has to be announced at *some* point.Note: These are all *my personal observations*, I haven't done measurements, etc.RyanE@Control4: Thanks for listening!I've always thought that the HC1000 was a flawed product for lack of any I/O other than Ethernet, regardless of its much hyped processing power. It was very obvious that it minimally needed to have a ZigBee radio to communicate DIRECTLY to switches, dimmers and remotes. I am very glad that they have integrated the Zigbee and other I/O features into a powerful controller. I have been waiting for this for a long time. I will probably implement my C4 system early this year with an HC800 at the heart. I will be watching this forum for feedback from some HC800 early adopters as I still am wary of being an OS 2.2 guinea pig.I think that a future controller product that would be even better than an HC800 would be one with a PC style chassis with many I/O card slots. One could add cards as needed. If your project needed more Serial ports and no contacts, add another two (or four!) port serial cards and leave out the contacts card. If you wanted to be able to decode music two more independent audio zones, then add second audio decoding card (something like an M-Audio card). This would be ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You think? Right now the going price for a 1000V3 is less than $500.Yeah, the value on those babies is going to drop like a rock. The used/second hand market is about to be flooded with them.It is inferior to the HC800 in every single way (other than the internal HDD, which I find useless), and that has a $999 retail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think that a future controller product that would be even better than an HC800 would be one with a PC style chassis with many I/O card slots. One could add cards as needed. If your project needed more Serial ports and no contacts, add another two (or four!) port serial cards and leave out the contacts card. If you wanted to be able to decode music two more independent audio zones, then add second audio decoding card (something like an M-Audio card). This would be ideal.That's the road Phast (the Control4 founders' previous company) went down.Card frame designs are notoriously difficult and expensive to develop, and since you have to develop and market them as separate pieces, there isn't really much savings.Not to mention, no EFI protection on bare cards when they're being installed, etc. One good ZZZZap!, and your card doesn't work anymore.For various reasons, I don't like the card frame type solution anymore.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Why not use USB ports for expansion like this - contacts, serial ports and even more A/V ports. Such devices even exist for PCs, you would just need drivers so that they run on the C4 controllers. A quick Google turns up Phidgets: "Phidgets are a set of "plug and play" building blocks for low cost USB sensing and control from your PC. " Substitute C4 controller for PC and you are off to the races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathww Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You think? Right now the going price for a 1000V3 is less than $500.Errr...you might want to take another look at that.I will sell my V3 for 499.00. Got it in November. That's less than 500. Any takers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ok, whatever. Yesterday the going rate was $450 +shipping. I find it hilarious that people now think it's useless. Gee, not more than a few months back and the 1000V3 was the ONLY way to go. It still works doesn't it? How come all I heard here was pinchin pennies man, pinchin pennies...Now, it's like C4 has you in a trance and you "vill" buy my new controller. Simple HI-larious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think that a future controller product that would be even better than an HC800 would be one with a PC style chassis with many I/O card slots. One could add cards as needed. If your project needed more Serial ports and no contacts' date=' add another two (or four!) port serial cards and leave out the contacts card. If you wanted to be able to decode music two more independent audio zones, then add second audio decoding card (something like an M-Audio card). This would be ideal.[/quote']That's the road Phast (the Control4 founders' previous company) went down.Card frame designs are notoriously difficult and expensive to develop, and since you have to develop and market them as separate pieces, there isn't really much savings.Not to mention, no EFI protection on bare cards when they're being installed, etc. One good ZZZZap!, and your card doesn't work anymore.For various reasons, I don't like the card frame type solution anymore.RyanEComputer systems use card frames, the pro audio world use card frames, companies like Christie Digital, Sanyo, Barco and others all use card frame systems and have for years with out issue. It's not about the cost savings, it's about the ease of upgrading and the performance and power of being able to use modern tech. As nice as the 800 appears, and I want one, i'd rather have an i7 Sandybridge driving the system and in a year or two be able to swap computers out for more power and performance. This is why other large companies utilize the card frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoskiguy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How about a VMWare Image of a virtual HC-1000.... I'd buy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yes, large companies (also $$$) use cardframes.It's a tradeoff. I agree cardframes can certainly be done well, and *may* allow for less expensive modular upgrades, but they also can be done poorly, and only allow for expensive upgrades.And USB modules? That's a non-starter, IMHO. Others have tried that (one that even did their literature almost *exactly* like Control4's literature a few years ago), USB is not foolproof, and once you start to add hubs and hub power supplies, etc., it gets unwieldy quickly.All that said, I'm not a hardware PM, so who knows, they may do that at some point.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookedOnC4 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ok, whatever. Yesterday the going rate was $450 +shipping. I find it hilarious that people now think it's useless. Gee, not more than a few months back and the 1000V3 was the ONLY way to go. It still works doesn't it? How come all I heard here was pinchin pennies man, pinchin pennies...Now, it's like C4 has you in a trance and you "vill" buy my new controller. Simple HI-larious.To funny...Mine is still under warranty and works great. I have music stored on it... Did control 4 say it's not supported or what? Well back to my 8 tracks...and Walkman cd player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 ^No., not yet at least. Speculation is running that a V4 is due. But aside from that, the 800 is where we needed to be with cpu power back when they dropped the price of the V3. However, the price drop generated sales to the point of many finding that it did help with throughput issues. It does, say over a single 300. It works well enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookedOnC4 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 ^No., not yet at least. Speculation is running that a V4 is due. But aside from that, the 800 is where we needed to be with cpu power back when they dropped the price of the V3. However, the price drop generated sales to the point of many finding that it did help with throughput issues. It does, say over a single 300. It works well enough for me.Agree mine works awesome. This might be the time to pick some equipment up for the house up north Mi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How far up North? I finally sold my home on Wallon Lake near Petoskey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookedOnC4 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How far up North? I finally sold my home on Wallon Lake near Petoskey.That's a lot nicer than Otsego lake...Gaylord... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neter66 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I just picked up a 1000v3 today from one of the folks on the board. Mine is a medium complexity system ( 75 lights, fireplace, 4 cameras, 4 touchscreens, 20 sensors, doorbell, 6x6 video matrix, 4 zones audio, 3 tvs, 2 apple tv, 2 cable boxes, and 2 garage door relays ) I have been running on 1x hc300 and 1x hc300c. No on screen navigators. I was told from the beginning to use an hc1000 but didn't have the budget with everything else. Now, with the price that I paid, I'm happy to say my system should be speced to just the right size. I'm excited to see how quickly simple things like double clicks to turn on a series of lights responds. Theres only two things that bother me ( delay wise ) with my current setup - and that is the 2 seconds for the double click to register, and how long it takes for the announcement to play when a garage door opens. I'll post back when I get it integrated. ThanksD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulstevens Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Theres only two things that bother me ( delay wise ) with my current setup - and that is the 2 seconds for the double click to register, and how long it takes for the announcement to play when a garage door opens.As discussed in other threads, there is a delay inherent in processing taps vs presses regardless of controller. There will always be a delay when processing button taps / clicks. The question is how much MORE delay is in your existing setup due to the lower processing power of the non-HC1000 controllers. My guess is your delay will drop to about 1 second perhaps a tad less. That's what I see in my setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tilimil Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 How about a VMWare Image of a virtual HC-1000.... I'd buy that.Ding ding ding! We have a winner...I know the HC1000 has an Intel Atom 330 @ 1.60GHz. Quite frankly people could run this vmware image on their home PC's (while it's doing other things) and blow that performance away. I wonder what the HC800 has. Anyone know? I saw dual-core 1.8 ghz but curious which processor it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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