Köhler Medientechnik

14 hours ago, dinom said:

When I think of home theater, I'm thinking dedicated room for movie watching in my case.  For this, I find the combination touchscreen and hard button remote like Neeo is better, although Neeo needs backlit buttons badly.  I used to have an RTI system in my house, and I have to agree it was much more customizable, but that also complicated the design of the user interface.  I did like being able to add any button I'd like to any touch screen or remote screen.  So for example I could have a watch movie screen with all the transport buttons, and then have a few buttons off the side for raising the lights or changing the screen mask aspect ratio, etc., without having to change to another page.  You could also name the buttons however you'd like, so again it was 100% customizable.  

Yep, that´s exactly what i mean.

On 10/25/2020 at 9:26 PM, Chico said:

Wait, a touch screen remote is better than one with buttons for Home Theaters?

I didn´t say that. I prefer a combination of touchpanel and hardbuttons.

The Neeo has that in general, but it doesn´t have enough hardbuttons. Crestron and RTI have remote with lots of buttons plus a touchpanel - that´s a perfect combination IMHO.
You have an intuitive mapping of functionality to the hardbuttons plus you have the ability to display additional information and added touchbuttons for additional functionality for which you wouldn´t find a suitable hardbutton.

EDIT: This is the Crestron and these are the RTI remotes.

RTI has a really nice setup of remotes. I´ve added them to our portfolio, since we´re mainly doing home cinema setups, and people prefer to have a (touch)remote controlling them. The SR-260 is not sexy and the Neeo is lacking hard buttons.

I know we´re in a C4-forum and people here rate it more as a plus, but especially for home cinemas, i´m still struggling with the limited customizeability of C4.

IMHO, both Crestron and RTI are superior to C4 for this kind of application.

33 minutes ago, BubbaDuck said:

If anyone knows that  this is the worst thing to ever do and I'll burn down the house, ears are open.

As said before you can buy these things ready made exactly for this purpose...

But if you care about code and regulations, you should let this be done by a qualified electrician. At least where i live, it´s not allowed to tamper with the electrical installation if you´re not qualified. If the forum says it´s fine and your house burns down, it´s your problem anyway...

2 minutes ago, zaphod said:

I have only worked with 12V RGB(WW) strips.  I would think that 24V strips would have less dimming over a longer strip, is that true?  The thought being that 12V requires twice the current for the same power.

Yep. I always use 24V stripes. 12V/5V only for special applications (pixel stripes).

I´m using these "base load modules" (not sure if translated right, it´s "Grundlastmodul" in German).

Mostly one them eleminates flicker, sometimes you need to put two in parallel.

They are standard components in Germany, so at least not violating German guideline. 

3 hours ago, jackstone said:

I think he said the All Channel ON command worked, that mean all the Serial and DMX Chain is mostly working.

Ah, i missed that piece. That indeed sounds like wrong channel setting.

Couldn´t find a manual for the DMX decoder, but it seems as if you can drive the LEDs directly via the DIP-switches on the decoder.
Do the LEDs light up using these?

Does the "signal" LED on the decoder light up when you´re sending DMX data from the Engeneering Solutions Gateway to the decoder?

There are actually a lot of issues in the chain: are the serial parameters from the C4-controller to the DMX-gateway correct (esp. baudrate), is the wiring correct between the gateway and the decoder (DMX +/-/GND - what´s the cable length? Terminated?)? Wiring from decoder to LEDs? What kind of power supply are you using? Does it fit to the LEDs (12V? 24V?). Power wiring correct (+/-)?

Did you try to connect the gateway directly to a PC sending ASCII commands via terminal software? Does it respond correctly?

Lots of possible pitfals here...

12 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

My only point was if someone "wants" to get in your network and they're skilled at it (typically not onsite thieves my guess) they will likely get into to most consumer or prosumer gear and they wont need to stand at your doorbell with a laptop to do it.       

Sure, if they want to they would be able to. It´s just different approaches. 

Network security works similar to physical security: if you have the basics set right (secure passwords set, no port forwarding, current patch level, etc), then they´ll most likely move over to an easier target. Same with physical security: if you have reasonable modern and secure doors and windows, they´ll just move to the neighbour...

40 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

Assume if the evil hacker really wants inside your network and they are skilled,  they will get in and there are likely less risky ways for the hacker to enter (eg not committing physical theft or being onsite) ...

Well, the fact that there are other attack vectors shouldn´t prevent you from taking measures to mitigate this one.

If i were a hacker, i´d assume that most households have at least a basic security in place towards their internet access and wifi. But i´d assume almost none of them takes measures to secure their LAN. So getting LAN access via outdoor LAN ports (door stations, wifi APs, outdoor cameras) would be an easy catch (of course based on the location). And if you´re on the LAN, additional things like opening the garage or backdoor could be achieved.

In commercial environments, it´s often LAN ports in publicly accessable meeting/conference rooms that are often neglected and potentiall at risk.

But of course everybody has to do his own risk assessment and what measures to take. And yes, i´ve also got homework to do regarding my own outdoor LAN connections. 

9 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

The discussion is over cause patch is out 

Hope they´ve properly tested this time. 

34 minutes ago, Amr said:

I wonder who will not spot an intruder on your front door that is carrying a laptop and trying to hack into your network? 

Well, it depends where the device is mounted. At my place, i don´t have direct sight to the entrance gate. And during the night, i seldom watch my outdoor cameras - so plenty of time to hack into the LAN.

For outdoor LAN devices, it´s indeed very important that they can´t be removed easily to get access to the physical port in the first place. That´s one of the main reasons why the "serious" doorstations are usually pretty expensive - they are solid build. Then - in terms of security - handle the outdoor LAN ports the same as if they are your Internet access.

23 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

But in all seriousness, define a developer and not doing the work?

In C4's case, you would think the engineers aren't heavily involved in the beta testing process (as in spending 8 or more hours a day literally sitting there using the system) - but focused on recreating and fixing reported issues (in other words, fix issues, not find them)

Developer and tester are different roles in a software development process. Sure, in small companies these roles are often covered by the same people, but actually they shouldn´t. (i´m not talking about a small company/one-man shop)

23 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

So you're saying any and every iOS and android app developer must test on each iteration of the base OS on each possible hardware?

No, i´m not saying that. You should define reasonable test environments. For instance, focus on major OS versions or leave different hardware out of scope when it´s just too diverse out there. At least you should have the main working environments covered.
What exactly is "reasonable" depends on the resources you have and what goal you want to achieve with the process.
For C4, "reasonable" should of course cover both packages "Pro" and "HE".

23 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

If you're taling about this issue with HE, then yeah, they should probably have a laptop or 4,5 lying around to check basic functions like this - but again keep in mind that ComposerHE is NOT different software for 99% from ComposerPRO, so intense testing of every aspect of HE is redundant because those components are identical to PRO already.

That´s the whole point about regression testing: you test functionality that has well worked in the past to find out if it´s broken in the new build.

18 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Because they are not a dealer installed product

I think that´s the main point: 

For e.g. Sonos / Apple, these are end-user products anyway, so if a user screws up his system, it´s up to the user (probably together with the manufacturer) to resolve issues.
I don´t want to image supporting a customer that screwed up his house by using beta software and discuss with him who pays the bill for fixing it.

8 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Exactly, but that is NOT and end-user beta tester, but a beta tester working purely as an end-user.

Or a beta tester that has different testing environments installed: one with the Pro and one with the HE. Just like @eggzlot mentioned.

 That´s really standard stuff to have.

7 hours ago, Cyknight said:

But on the analogy - you cannot expect an app developer to have every VERSION of iOS and Android running on every DEVICE out there. So it's not always possible to mimic the experience 100%.

First, a developer shouldn´t do the testing himself, that would be a waste of development resources. Second, if you provide software for different environments then you should have test environments for these (and test on them).

7 hours ago, msgreenf said:

No company has perfect test cases and wonders like this lead to new test cases that will be fixed for next time

We could probably discuss on what´s "basic" and what´s "perfect", but hopefully you´re right. I think we´ve all had occasions where we thought "geez, don´t they do any testing?". 

7 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Not that simple.

Well it is, actually... If you do proper testing in software development, you test against standard test cases that obviously should cover different user groups if your software environment covers different user groups and do regression testing to ensure that previously working features aren´t broken by a new built. But of course end-user group testing doesn´t have to be (and should not be done by the reasons mentioned above) done by an actual end-user but can be done internally with  test end-user accounts...

But it´s not only C4 - Crestron had it´s testing desaster a couple of weeks ago with their IOS app... 

4 hours ago, TundraSonic said:

Just like I don't want to have to wait for someone to come connect a new trackpad to my computer, I don't want to wait for someone to connect a light to a button.

I´m totally fine with that. You´re just obviously not my target customer.
The customers i´m dealing with just don´t "buy a new Hue or LIFX lamp", they are not interested at all in dealing with this stuff. They don´t want to waste their valuable time with shopping for Hue bulbs. If they want some fancy coloured lighting they call and say "i want some fancy coloured lighting" and then they get it.
I´m totally fine with the 1%, i don´t go for the 99%. 1% of 80.000.000 population in Germany are still 800.000 - that´s a lot more i can handle. 

3 hours ago, msgreenf said:

I say that to say there is a market for both. 

It is indeed.

I´ve just installed a Binary™ 260 Series 4K HDR HDMI Splitter | 1x2.

It´s a one-input, two-input splitter with an integrated scaler.
I use it in my home cinema to drive a 1080p preview monitor parallel to my 4K projector. Works really good with everything i throw at it, up to 4K@60 4:4:4.

Hi,

i´m currently working on a project where the customer wants to add outdoor speakers to his installation.

Amplifier channels are available, i´m looking for suitable speakers now.

I have no experience with Triad. There are OD25 and OD26. 
Any thoughts about these? Do they need the GA10 subwoofer or is it ok without?

Bonus question: the GA10 is a passive subwoofer, correct?

2 hours ago, ejn1 said:

So the dealer like you who may be going for higher unit margin, less headache, and fewer deals may not be C4's target dealer

For sure. C4 is only a small piece of my projects anyway. Actually, i´m selling more of the other Snap-AV portfolio in my projects than real C4-stuff.

9 hours ago, ejn1 said:

** Rapper or Professional Athlete that wants all the tech bling,  money is like monopoly money, no technical knowledge, single (so no wife or family complaining), doesn't tinker or shop online/best buy for new IoT gadgets and has an integrator who is part of his entourage and on a special fixed annuity annual service plan.    Willing to have integrator set up entire Pakedge or Araknis network and monitor everything for any downtime. 

 

Sounds good to me in general. 

Let me add: doesn´t have to be "rapper / professional athlete". Doesn´t need to be that high up. 
Plus doesn´t need to be single. Often a/the family is the driver to hire a professional installer because they like it when things just work and are simple.

There are more people/families like this than you probably think. At least if you don´t run a big business but just do a couple of projects a year on your own without big overhead.

9 hours ago, ejn1 said:

So I think the last couple of weeks on a couple different threads we are starting to size up the target profile of the ideal C4 customer

I guess when we´re done we could put it online for willing customers to apply. 

2 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

not sure what you mean with something always broken.  I can do it all myself or hire someone.  Doesn’t impact how much potential downtime could be across all systems in my house.  Depends on way too many variables to make such a blanket statement.   

That was refering to your outdoor TV example:
You suggested to buy minor quality stuff because for the price difference to the high quality one, you just could let it break and replace it.
That creates downtime - according to Murphy, it´ll break down when you don´t need it.

Plus when it breaks the model you installed is potentially out of production, you need to search for a replacement that has potentially different remote control requirements, doesn´t fit into the old frame/box, etc.

You´re pretending that your own labor has no cost applied. But all this creates effort, hassle and frustration.
If you´re happy with it - fine. I just wouldn´t suggest that approach to others.

But to cut the discussion short: sure i´m with you that for the technology used, home automation touchscreens are relatively expensive, i agree with it.

12 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

And if the end user isn’t the facility manager of the house they are paying someone to do it (you) so you would rather sell the expensive item once vs cheap items every few years. 

Well, you still have the downtime. If you do the same approach for all of your stuff in the house, there´ll be always something broken...

14 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

That said some items are priced at a point that doesn’t make much sense.  T3/t4 is one of those items.  And you could get by with android tablets for a fraction of the price

Well, as mentioned before, a tablet is not a 1:1 replacement for a fixed touch-panel. But of course you have to make your own decision from a cost-benefit perspective.

BTW: With Crestron, you won´t even get a 7" panel for the price of the C4 10" panel - so it´s all relative. 

31 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

though I agree - at the price of a cheap android tablet its cheaper to replace them every 2-3 years.  I have a friend who worried about an “outdoor tv” though it was covered and mostly a shaded area.  I said buy a cheap TCL or Toshiba TV or something and total worst case you throw it away every year for 10 years and its cheaper than a “sunbrite” tv or whatever that is meant for outdoors.

Few thoughts about that:

1. Total waste of earth´s resources...
2. I want my gear to work and not have them to replace regularly. I don´t want to be the facility manager of my own house. Effort is cost to me, even if i´d do the replacement myself.

14 minutes ago, zaphod said:

So roughly a $1200 premium vs a basic iPad. 

Plus the additional wall mount. 

But yes, you have to make up your mind how much is the additional convenience worth for you.