faster68 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Has anyone been able to get some traction on a Hayward Pool Control driver for Control 4? The Serial Programming Guide explaining all the hex codes etc. is available, I thought the programming would be a matter ease. Well, I was wrong. Extra Vegetables doesn't want to touch it, neither does Black Wire. Does anyone have any insight as to why getting this done is so hard? While your at it, does anyone have a programmer that they know that I can hire to do the job?Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin L Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 BlackWire and EV do not want to do it because there is no SDK to support it.. There is ZERO documenation on the pool proxy from C4. If there is an issue there is no support or help from C4. It would cost a considerable amount of time to develop it and in the end there is zero official support for that proxy.. The only way to create something would be to reverse engineer the jandy and pentair drivers which is not a good business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Yup the pool proxy needs to be rewritten entirely IMO and I'm not sure that's high priority but I expect it would get done at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faster68 Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 But if you step away from the fact that a pool is being controlled, if you use the hex codes, why is the task so difficult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin L Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 It has nothing to do with the pool serial codes. I have all of them. It has to do with there is no documenation on how to make a driver for a pool so we would have to look at the other 2 drivers and if there is an issue there is no support or any documenation to look at.Control4 has a Software Development Kit aka SDK and inside of it are instructions on how to make different driver sand how they apply to Control4.. There is nothing in there on doing pool drivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faster68 Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Couldn't an SDK for something else be used? We are only talking turn pump on/off, set pool hear value, turn lights on/off. If we get fancy, set/schedule pool heater temp value, and even fancier read current air temp at pump. Wouldn't an HVAC SDK fit the bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin L Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 no.. all of that is completely different when using the pool proxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faster68 Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Then why use the pool proxy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin L Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Look. If there was any real way to make it we would. There's a reason the 2 biggest third party Control4 developers won't make it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faster68 Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Geeze, sorry to have irritated you so much Kevin. As one of the biggest third party Control 4 developers out there, might I ask someone with such a high stature such a yourself to perhaps answer my questions with logic rather than vague statements of impossibility? I only have a home automation system and a pool automation system that are plugged into one another and all I need is the software, something that I was told would not be a problem, yet I should just forget about it now because you are irritated and EV says they don't have the time in their schedule. Yeah, I'll just let this go even though the Hex codes are available, I have been told that C4 can do Hex codes no problem because what I am looking for is 'impossible', or scheduling, or the job won't yield enough sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnGordon Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I thought that Kevin explained it perfectly.Whoever told you that your pool system could be integrated was wrong, and perhaps you should turn your frustration toward this person instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faster68 Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Dawn, I wasn't frustrated here until Kevin made is last post. I am glad that you think the answer is crystal clear I, however, do not and still feel the 'reason' is vague. Let me explain further, take out of the equation that I am working with a pool. Pretend that I am controlling window blinds, or an HVAC unit or what ever. Send and receive the related hex codes via a serial cable. I have the hex codes, I have the hardware, all I need is the software to be configured. Control 4 says that any hex codes can be done... A + B is not equal to C for me here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 faster68,In a sense, you're right. A driver could certainly be made for your pool controller. However, without a proxy, a UI would also have to be created, since all of Control4's UI (outside of apps) is done through the appropriate proxy.Creating UIs in Flash isn't exactly a cake walk, and makes the development effort a lot more difficult and time-consuming than just creating a driver with a working proxy.The pool proxy is pretty limited at this point in time, and is not terribly well documented, although some improvement has been made in the documentation area.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin L Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 ok ill explain it a different wayYou require 2 SDKs to make a driver for Control4. 1 SDK is from Control4. This tells you how to map codes to different functions of the Control4 system1 SDK is from the manufacture of the product. This tells you what codes are needed to do functions with the productControl4 DOES NOT HAVE ANY POOL CODES PUBLISHED AT ALL. THE ONLY WAY TO GET POOL CODES IS TO REVERSE ENGINEER THE 2 EXISTING DRIVERS WHICH ARE NOT PERFECT. THERE IS ZERO DOCUMENTATION ON HOW TO USE THE POOL PROXY. THE ONLY WAY TO CONTROL A POOL IS USING THE POOL PROXY. No one is going to write a driver that maps the pool to a relay box icon or a light switch. Thats useless and not really pool control. Here are some examples of SDKS from Control4AV Receiver:the Control4 SDK tells you ok to to volume up you use "this" and put your code "here", to source selection you do "this" and put your code "here"DVD Player:the Control4 SDK tells you ok to to play you use "this" and put your code "here", to stop playing you do "this" and put your code "here"etc etc the list goes onThe Control4 SDK for controlling a pool tells you to do... NOTHING. There is NOTHING IN THERE ON POOLS! I hope this helps you better understand the issue. No one is going to make a driver that has no documentation, no support from C4 and quite possibly could have their driver broken with each OS update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin L Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 faster68,In a sense, you're right. A driver could certainly be made for your pool controller. However, without a proxy, a UI would also have to be created, since all of Control4's UI (outside of apps) is done through the appropriate proxy.Creating UIs in Flash isn't exactly a cake walk, and makes the development effort a lot more difficult and time-consuming than just creating a driver with a working proxy.The pool proxy is pretty limited at this point in time, and is not terribly well documented, although some improvement has been made in the documentation area.RyanEAs Ryan has said an APP could be build for the UI. This means you must use a Control4 touch screen or myhomepc software only. The driver would not be written as a pool driver at all at that point but again you would not be able to access this via 4sight, on your iphone, ipad, or android device. This isnt what people want so its not really a viable option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Control4 DOES NOT HAVE ANY POOL CODES PUBLISHED AT ALL. THE ONLY WAY TO GET POOL CODES IS TO REVERSE ENGINEER THE 2 EXISTING DRIVERS WHICH ARE NOT PERFECT. THERE IS ZERO DOCUMENTATION ON HOW TO USE THE POOL PROXY. THE ONLY WAY TO CONTROL A POOL IS USING THE POOL PROXY.FYI, this not exactly true.There is documentation on the pool proxy. You just haven't talked to the right people.It does *not* solve the issues with the pool proxy, and still doesn't create a UI on the devices that don't have it yet.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin L Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 i was specially told by someone there that i should not work on this driver as there would be zero support and that there was no documentation ( at that time ) it sounds like even though there is documentation developing for this pool controller still isn't a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I agree that there is basically no support for creating drivers in the Pool proxy at this point in time (until it is a: fixed and b: UI available on all platforms), but there is (somewhat limited) documentation for the current state of the pool proxy.Unfortunately, right now, it is what it is, and without more attention, it's not all that 'ready for primetime'.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faster68 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 Sounds to me that Control 4 may need to step up here, am I right Ryan? How long till its 'ready for primetime'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Unfortunately, I don't know where updating the Pool proxy is on the roadmap.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shags7 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I too have the Hayward Goldline system (along with the AQ-CO-SERIAL module) and have been trying for several years to integrate it with my Control 4 system, but have been unsuccessful. I am really surprised that it cannot be done as there is even a way to control the Hayward System via the internet as well as through a serial interface they have for AMX I am told. Like faster68, I too would be willing to hire/pay someone to come up with the programming and integrate it with my Control4 system - however, from reading all posts on this subject, it appears that they will need to push Control4 to add some support in this area.Shags7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawkyns Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 HII have been wondering about this as well. I updated my pool controller to a intellitouch specifically for the purpose of being able to use the c4 system to control it.We have it working to some extent. however it needs improvement.specifically, it needs a way to hide the aux circuits which are not needed, or reassign the outputs on what is shown. right now, I have 50 aux circuits created, the first 8 control pool relays, and the last 6 control feature circuits, but the rest are just screen junk as they are not used by the pool system, but there is no way to get rid of them.does anybody know if the existing driver can be modified to allow this? it seems as if it would be an easy thing to plug in new serial commands to spaces at the top of the existing driver, or to allow some of the unused aux circuits to be hidden.. definately something I would pay to have done to make it more wife-friendlyThanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 does anybody know if the existing driver can be modified to allow this? it seems as if it would be an easy thing to plug in new serial commands to spaces at the top of the existing driver, or to allow some of the unused aux circuits to be hidden.. definately something I would pay to have done to make it more wife-friendlyThanksNo, as mentioned previously in the thread, Control4 needs to circle back to the pool proxy, api and user interface first before any new drivers or modifications to drivers can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Willis Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Everyone needs to take a minute, go to Control4s website and send them a quick email letting then know the pool proxy and ui is important to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Effilctar Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 HII have been wondering about this as well. I updated my pool controller to a intellitouch specifically for the purpose of being able to use the c4 system to control it.We have it working to some extent. however it needs improvement.specifically, it needs a way to hide the aux circuits which are not needed, or reassign the outputs on what is shown. right now, I have 50 aux circuits created, the first 8 control pool relays, and the last 6 control feature circuits, but the rest are just screen junk as they are not used by the pool system, but there is no way to get rid of them.does anybody know if the existing driver can be modified to allow this? it seems as if it would be an easy thing to plug in new serial commands to spaces at the top of the existing driver, or to allow some of the unused aux circuits to be hidden.. definately something I would pay to have done to make it more wife-friendlyThanksWe wrote a driver for the pentair intelletouch i10+3d that does exactly this. We can select how many and which aux's to show. A project had a system just like yours, had 50 aux's and only wanted 6 macro aux's on the navigator. It has been running great for over a year so we have started using it on most of our installs. I wasn't paying attention and used it on a Jandy RS and it worked perfectly. I didn't even notice the wrong driver was in for a month when I went back to tweak something. We were able to resolve the issue where the UI was not showing the state of the aux's accurately when you first pull it up, we we are happy with it. We weren't going to mess with selling it because we were told the proxy is getting an overhaul and I don't know what that would do to this driver. If you really need it PM me and I'm sure we can work something out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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