21st century Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Im not using anything I shouldnt. :rolleyes:Only because you got caught by your own admission!! The example I used was when a fellow co-worker sold something on Ebay that was purchased under the Control4 dealer accommodation and the device was traced to outside of the country. Control4 then contacted my co-workers boss, also known as me. I apologise if the two scenarios you refer to in two separate posts were unrelated! (it was coincidental) but the fact still stands you continued to use a license you were not entitled to use once you terminated your employment with the C4 dealer until you got caught. Be sure that when you cast stones you know what glass house your hitting. My glass house is very much undamaged, I have only stated the facts, 'you were in possession of something you should not have had and risked your ex-employer's dealership' and after being a boss to another employee who broke the C4 rules you should have known better!!! please stop digging mate you're really are getting deeper in your own hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mntneer Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 All, I stated earlier, I had no knowledge that a dealer license is comprised if the dealer does not install the equipment. If this was the case, i wouldn't have posted as this forum has a reputation for being extremely pro dealer based and im not looking to stir. If I'm open, I don't know how this can possibly be the case as I'm sure dealers subcontract electrical work on occasion (to folks who are not party to a C4 dealer agreement) and I know many dealers sell equipment without installation as my local dealer did this quite openly. My problem with that dealer was that he was generally incompetent on a security camera install and gouged me on pricing, didnt honor his warranty, so I left them. My swat team comment is conveniently taken out of context by Cy, my point is that when a customer takes the time to proactively offer a fair price for something (and 10% off list is VERY fair), then we are not going to lecture them on tax code which is petty BS. The fast assumption was this was one order but my post was seeking a purchase connection. I have purchased thousands of $$ of C4 equipment for my own use so its a bad assumption thinking its one order. Cy says its not about money but i have no doubt if I would have started my post with "I'm willing to pay 10% MORE than list price" and didn't mention tax, Cy would've rolled out the red carpet and showered me with roses in a PM. ps if this was a pro consumer forum, you would've certainly heard some comments on "free trade" and allowing for fair competition in a market. but I understand why Cy does not bring this point up. Thanks 21st Century for showing excellent customer support! Where are you located at? Maybe there is another local dealer in your area that can help meet your needs since you've ended the relationship with your previous dealer. I can understand the frustration in finding a dealer if you're in a very remote area and your options are limited, but if you're near a city of some size you'd probably have no trouble finding someone near you that would be willing to meet and talk with you. Thanks Cy for your responses. I'm not here to lecture on free market dealer agreements... On the dealer rules, I'm still a little unclear on your point above as Ryan was not definitive in his response earlier (imo). Are you saying that a dealer cannot sell a light switch to a customer, the customer install the light switch and that dealer (or another remote integrator) program the device into my system? Your saying the above example would be a violation of the dealer agreement and they would be at risk of losing their license? I'm really struggling how this could be a clear violation in a dealer agreement so I would really like to clear this up so I don't ask for something wrongly. Whether it's a violation or not, I would not recommend any customer install any light switch on their own. It's one thing to hook up a WMB, but with switches, keypads, etc. you're better suited to have that dealer line you up with an electrician to handle the install if they don't have any licensed electricians on staff. It's scary what you find sometimes in some older residential wiring. Now, should a customer have an electrician already working for them, or have a relationship with a licensed electrician, then I don't think it's an issue for a dealer to sell the switch, have that electrician install and then program for the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Dealer agreement among other things states (and I'm sure these aren't exact words) that you cannot sell equipment without also adding the service of professional install and setup. This doesn't as such pertain to installing electrical devices (which a dealer shouldn't be doing if not a certified electrician either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Whether it's a violation or not, I would not recommend any customer install any light switch on their own. It's one thing to hook up a WMB, but with switches, keypads, etc. you're better suited to have that dealer line you up with an electrician to handle the install if they don't have any licensed electricians on staff. It's scary what you find sometimes in some older residential wiring. Now, should a customer have an electrician already working for them, or have a relationship with a licensed electrician, then I don't think it's an issue for a dealer to sell the switch, have that electrician install and then program for the customer.Violations of city electrical codes are usually a bigger problem than dealer agreements. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mntneer Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Violations of city electrical codes are usually a bigger problem than dealer agreements.Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Not to mention insurance claims should an improperly installed switch cause a fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Not to mention insurance claims should an improperly installed switch cause a fire. I'm likely not the norm but I trust my electrical capabilities for the majority of items I need to be better than most of the electricians I've encountered. I would also put my knowledge of local code sufficient. So for this reason I would rather give my available budget to the programming and equipment side of the install. This should be a positive for most C4 dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Dealer agreement among other things states (and I'm sure these aren't exact words) that you cannot sell equipment without also adding the service of professional install and setup. This doesn't as such pertain to installing electrical devices (which a dealer shouldn't be doing if not a certified electrician either).Thanks for the reply. In all openess, I would have never started a C4 customer relationship in the first place if this was described to me per above.... Instead c4 has got a customer with a house full of their gear whom I promote to all my friends and dealers have made equipment profit and programming profit from me and all without a gun to their head to do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Dealer agreement among other things states (and I'm sure these aren't exact words) that you cannot sell equipment without also adding the service of professional install and setup. This doesn't as such pertain to installing electrical devices (which a dealer shouldn't be doing if not a certified electrician either).sorry CY was rereading your last point, Are you saying that a dealer is not required to do electrical work? If so then my example I raised above is valid... Every controller setup and programming I have done by a c4 dealer. My point is that a c4 dealer can sell me an electrical switch and not be in violation? It seems a times we are playing in the fringes from discouraging customers from just buying equipment versus hard dealer rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterwilson Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Ebay, DIY install and remote programming. You can routinely get equipment for >50% off MSRP on Ebay. Even if it fails you can buy it again and still be fine $$$ wise. Keep in mind that even with the Control4 warranty on new items your dealer may charge "labor" to swap out the defective item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 sorry CY was rereading your last point, Are you saying that a dealer is not required to do electrical work? If so then my example I raised above is valid... Every controller setup and programming I have done by a c4 dealer. My point is that a c4 dealer can sell me an electrical switch and not be in violation? It seems a times we are playing in the fringes from discouraging customers from just buying equipment versus hard dealer rules.But he cannot be selling you 'just' equipment - he has to sell it WITH the 'programming' if you will. One can argue he should ARRANGE professional install of the light switches and such. So - not sell you device, then some other dealer programs it in. As I said, think of it what you will - I'm not here to defend the dealer model or the restrictions or not on the agreement as such - , it's still the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 But he cannot be selling you 'just' equipment - he has to sell it WITH the 'programming' if you will. One can argue he should ARRANGE professional install of the light switches and such. So - not sell you device, then some other dealer programs it in.As I said, think of it what you will - I'm not here to defend the dealer model or the restrictions or not on the agreement as such - , it's still the reality.Thanks. I'm not trying to judge it but rather understand fact from interpretation. I think the reality is it sounds fuzzy to me but that's my opinion. It sounds like you are indirectly saying that a customer has to have an exclusive relationship with one dealer and one dealer only at one time. If you have to only have programming and equipment with one dealer at a time then this seems like an exclusive relationship at a given time. That would put your dealer agreement in a different space imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Buying a light switch vs buying a controller though. Losing track of light switches sold but not integrated, especially if say a New build Or Reno. Losing track of controllers sold but not programmed. A little harder. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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