A router needed?

[Sidd]

My setup is like this.  Internet thru AT&T Uverse modem -> Netgear Router -> 3 TP-Link Access Points.  I assume Control4 controller, audio matrix, video matrix, etc are directly connected to the modem but not sure.  Anyway, recently I called a Control4 contractor to give me a solution and cost estimate to improve wi-fi signal throughout the house.  There are spots with weak signal and spots with no signal at all.  To cut it short, the contractor made a proposal but the interesting part of the proposal was that he could set up the system to get rid of all wi-fi issues and in the process he will get rid of the router.  I am not sure whole house wi-fi is possible without the router.  Is that possible? Would appreciate your inputs.  Thanks.

[eggzlot]

Probably replacing your router with a better quality piece of equipment. 

[Sidd]

I need to clarify.  The contractor did not say he will replace the router with a better one.  He claimed no router is needed.

[msgreenf]

do you have a proposal with equipment list to share?

[Sidd]

As for equipments, only four Luxul access points and Cat 6 wiring to connect those are involved.

[msgreenf]

Is your ATT Uverse box a modem / router combo?  Likely?  Maybe he wants to use that as a router - not a good idea

[Sidd]

Yes the AT&T piece is a modem and router combo.  That explains it.  

While cost is a major consideration, I try to get an idea whether the contractor is knowledgeable or not.  Thanks for your responses. Now I have a good idea.

[Cyknight]

On 9/3/2020 at 5:54 PM, Sidd said:

Internet thru AT&T Uverse modem -> Netgear Router

But you already HAVE a router in there...

 

That said, I would tell you that I;d replace that. Nothing against Netgear - but I assume it's a standard consumer model, and I wouldn't trust it with C4 as such.

I CERTAINLY wouldn't run it on an ISP router....

[Sidd]

Yes I already have a router.  The question I am faced is, Is the router needed at all?

[eggzlot]

14 minutes ago, Sidd said:

Yes I already have a router.  The question I am faced is, Is the router needed at all?

yes

 

its needed for a computer network, even if you didn't have control4.

[zaphod]

A router is definitely needed.  Many people these days use the term router when they really mean Wifi Access Point(WAP).

ISPs like Cable or Phone companies will often provide you with a Gateway device that combines the functionality of a modem, a router and a WAP.  But for various reasons you may not want to use these devices as routers or WAPs, but just as a modem.  But that can be tricky to do if you are also getting IPTV from your ISP.  You want to make sure that the person who sets all of this up is very knowledgable about computer networking.  That will give you a more robust and reliable network and won't screw up your TV service.

[Sidd]

Thanks for the responses.  I was intrigued by the point made by zaphod " ... term router when they really mean Wifi Access Point (WAP)."  

Given that the contractor in question didn't know I was getting TV service thru my ISP (AT&T), Is it possible the contractor was thinking about creating WAP just with modem and several access points installed?  

Also, the other point made by zaphod " ... can be tricky to do if you are also getting IPTV from your iSP."  As mentioned above I was getting TV thru AT&T but no longer.  Now I am getting TV thru YoutubeTV.  Does this in anyway change the need for a router?

Thanks.

[eggzlot]

Modem - gets signal into the house

Router - gives IP addresses to devices on your network, sets up your firewall rules, distributes the internet signal you get from the modem, etc.

Access Point - serves up your Wireless Signal

Switch is left out but a switch lets you plug in hardwired devices

usually in its most simplistic form:

a wire comes into your house into a modem (Coax, fiber, etc)

Modem gets the internet signal from the street

the router gets plugged into the modem and usually has a few ports on it so its a basic switch too

anything else (bigger switch, access points, etc) get plugged into that router 

Some providers give you an all in one box - some force you to use all the parts and some dont.  for instance I have Optimum/Altice, I have 1 box that is my modem, router and cable box in 1 (it also broadcasts a Wifi Signal).  I put that box into bridge mode and only use it as a modem and cable box.  I have my own router (mikrotik), switch (Cisco) and access points (Unifi).  On the other hand, with Verizon Fios I had more issues setting up using my own hardware AND getting all the Fios services - long story and won't bore you

point is, any network has these core components.  what hardware you can (or cannot) use may vary on your skill, your ISP, your needs, your budget, etc.

[Köhler Medientechnik]

20 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

Router - gives IP addresses to devices on your network, sets up your firewall rules, distributes the internet signal you get from the modem, etc.

Actually, a router routes data packets from one net to another. That´s it. It doesn´t even have to be a piece of hardware - plug a second NIC into a PC, start a router service, voilá you´ve got a router.

DHCP (IP addresses to devices on your network) or Firewall are services that (among lots of others) often run on a router, but are not genuine to a router.

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, Köhler Medientechnik said:

Actually, a router routes data packets from one net to another. That´s it. It doesn´t even have to be a piece of hardware - plug a second NIC into a PC, start a router service, voilá you´ve got a router.

DHCP (IP addresses to devices on your network) or Firewall are services that (among lots of others) often run on a router, but are not genuine to a router.

fair enough

i went thru IT networking 101 20 years ago

just trying to give some basic pointers for a residential system from someone asking "is a router needed".  tried to keep it to the hardware you would see from your ISP

[ekohn00]

On 9/8/2020 at 1:34 PM, Sidd said:

Yes I already have a router.  The question I am faced is, Is the router needed at all?

technically if you only had one device, you don't. but since you probably have more than one device you need to create your own home network.

At a high level....  the router is the device used to send packets between your network and the "internet".

[Köhler Medientechnik]

11 hours ago, eggzlot said:

just trying to give some basic pointers for a residential system from someone asking "is a router needed".  tried to keep it to the hardware you would see from your ISP

That´s OK. But in my experience it helps the overall understanding of a customer that it´s actually different services that can be also provided by other devices than the router they get from their ISP. I don´t think it complicates things too much saying "a router connects routes data between your home network and the internet and also provides some addition services you need to run your home network, but these services could also reside on other devices".