Mark Adams Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Hi everyone, I am putting together my control 4 system and i am at the point where i need an HDMI over Cat 5/6 Matrix switcher. (Hdmi runs are not possible) I wanted to see if there is a perfect fit for control 4 in terms of performance? Not sure if it matters but i am only interested in 1080P .... No 4k or 3D I am setting up the following. 5 Rooms / Displays will be stereo using the Control 4 8 zone amplifier and Ceiling SpeakersWe are also using the Control 4 Audio Matrix Switch3 Zones will be 5.1 surround and i will have the reciever in each room where HDMI will run through the reciever and then into the Display. Sources will be Direct TV PlaystationSony 400 disk Blu Ray Dune or Popcorn Hour I am looking for 1080p ...NO 3D OR 4K . I am Familiar with Just Add Power, Atlona and ShinyBow.... Any advice would be appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I am a big fan of the Snap A/V stuff. They have them with HDBaseT output, which works incredibly well. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 It depends on your setup. The Binary units Dan mentions aren't bad at all, but they certainly don't fall in the best category for quality. They've been ... troublesome at times, though only a few true failures over time. Still undecided on where I stand on these all in all.Generally speaking though, your choice of switch would depend largely on what you want it to do, not just the FullHD specs, but also how many in/out now, do you want the ability to add sources and TV's over time (Just Add Power has a big advantage there), how long are your runs going to be (some switches are better than others), are you using many different brands/models of TVs with different specs (HydraConnect is exceptional at EDID management).And, of course, what is your budget? (Binary/Snap has some advantage there, though not as much as many seem to believe). Integration wise many are fine: Binary (snap). Atlona, Just Add Power, Leaf, HydraConnect, Wyrestorm....many more. Shinybow not so much.Best integrated HDMI matrix over Cat5/6 with a Control4 system? Control4's own HDMI matrix. In general, go for either HDBaseT (Control4, Leaf, Some Binary/Snap models, Atlona are some examples but there's lots) or a good IP solution (Just Add Power mainly at this time). Other methods of transmitting over cat just don't match up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 I appreciate all of the feedback... Budget is the main constraint at this time. When i started this project i didn't realize the expense in HDMI Matrix switching. Just add power is out of the question for me although it is really flexible. For a 6 x 8 JAP system with the Cisco switch i am near $10,000. I still have AV Receivers, Audio Matrix Switches, Dune or Popcorn Hour Players and C4 Switches, plus a lot of other stuff. I was considering an Atlona 16x16 with receivers for $10,000 http://www.atlona.com/PRO2HD1616M.html Or, Just to get it all going for a year or 2 i can work with the Atlona 8 x 8 with 8 receivers for $5,000 I guess my question is... Will the switches above work correctly? I was told that with (1) HC-250 every display can have its on screen display and be controlled independently. Right now i only use one Direc-tv box, a Roku and a 400 disk blu ray changer. I really appreciate the feedback... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Or if i may ask... Do you have ANY idea what the control 4 8x8 HDMI Matrix switch goes for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbing1982 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Or if i may ask... Do you have ANY idea what the control 4 8x8 HDMI Matrix switch goes for? I know the msrp is 6,900.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstafford388 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I know the msrp is 6,900.00Yes, then you'll need the HDBaseT receivers for $350 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Awesome... thanks everyone i do appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Onthe 250 - it CAN be fed to a matrix, giving on-screen at every tv, and yes that allows control per room, BUT only one room at a time can use it as you'd be seizing control from each other - one video feed so one on-screen. Just something to be aware of.Does require some care as well on audio paths but a dealer should be able to manage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 that's what i thought but my dealer tried to convince me otherwise or we were mis-communicating. so if i did (1) 250 then im screwed in the other rooms? or i would just use SR-250'S Seems to me if i only have (1) SR-250 then i only have control 4 once at any given time Thanks a lot... i appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 that's what i thought but my dealer tried to convince me otherwise or we were mis-communicating. so if i did (1) 250 then im screwed in the other rooms? or i would just use SR-250'S Seems to me if i only have (1) SR-250 then i only have control 4 once at any given time Thanks a lot... i appreciate it. No you only have one Control4 On Screen Display instance at any one time. Other rooms can be controlled by touch screens, iPhones, Androids, SR250s etc, but if two users pressed the red button on the SR250 for two different rooms you get a conflict where both are trying to control the same navigator. Think of it like a laptop with a USB keyboard and mouse attached. If both the laptop keyboard and touchpad and the USB keyboard and mouse are in use at the same time it is a bit of a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 ok, just to reiterate... I should only have (1) HC-250 Controller and that provides onscreen control 4 display... With an HDMI Matrix switch i can push it to any one display or all displays at once? Bottom line is one HC-250 ONLY? I would use SR-250 remotes for each room or i could use touchscreens to control those rooms independently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstafford388 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 you can certainly have more than one HC250. it's recommended you have one for each room that you want the on screen navigator. i'd honestly just use the one and not even have the navigator available in most rooms. just get a few SR250s and use the remotes/mobile devices to do everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 The switch would push it everywhere at once if you want, but it's one 'screen' so USING it in more than one room at the same time won't work, as you'd just be working against the other, plus when you select the onscreen in a single room, it'll go to that room so room a on-screen all of a sudden shows the on-screen for room b, sees what room b is navigating to/selecting etc.In reality this doesn't become an issue very often, though that would somewhat depend on the user-case.So yes, it certainly is possible to use a single controller for on-screen use across a house - though Control4 doesn't recommend it, and i would suggest your sure to be familiar with the limitations it brings. One BIG limitation is that due to how things are tracked, if you use a controller via a matrix, announcements that use visual aspects via the announcement agent (pop-up screens) can make the system go haywire - tough you can still use announcements for audio no problem (doorbell chime) and you CAN still program say a TV to go to to a camera when the announcement triggers. Mainly something to be aware of - you can still pretty much do anything with the announcements but it may take some side-stepping. Note that you CAN control any room from that one on-screen, just like you can switch rooms on any other navigator (app, C4 touchscreen) as well as control any room from a single sr-250. The only thing limited there is the cheaper SR-150 which has to be dedicated to a room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 As Cy says, this depends on use case. How many people live in the property, how often are they all watching TV at the same time. How many of them will press WATCH on the SR250 and go straight to the source. How many will press the Red button and navigate on screen. How often are they all watching in a single group, how often in multiple groups. How many of them have tablets/phones they will use instead. IMHO every TV needs a SR250 or 150. Every TV with a 150 needs access to the Navigator. If you are using that TV as the OSD for selecting music sources etc then you need the on screen nav. If it is a family home and there is a Kids TV room and a Parents TV room then getting two HC250s (you could always look for a used unlicenced one on the internets to save some cents) one that is mapped to the kids TV screens and one that is mapped to the adults TV screens would likely cause less conflicts. Clearly TVs in guest rooms, Garages, Decks, Home Gym will rarely be using the nav so the need for a dedicated NAV in that room is lessened, especially where you will probably have a keypad and scene driving what usually happens in that room (e.g in the Gym a button that puts on a playlist or radio station and puts the TV onto the news etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I agree with using one controller per room, but it can be done. Just have to understand if a room seizes control of the on-screen none of the other rooms can take over or they will be fighting back and forth. I have yet to do it in an install yet but i'm sure there is some code that can be used to prevent it. If you are looking for the best deal you can get on all of your equipment we at Walt's Tv have a price match guarantee, free shipping, and no tax in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Well - i know this may seem like overkill but here is my scenario. I live alone but my kids come over every other weekend and i want them to be able to watch what they want. Master Bath - 2 in ceiling Speakers and a Display - want to run video to the Display and sound or music to the celiing speakers.Master Bedroom - Display with Separates for audio - FL, FR, CENTER, RL, RR (5.1 surround) Sons Room - 11 years old - Display with 2 ceiling speakers - want to be able to switch between stereo to speakers or audio for the displayDaughers room - 3 years old - Display with 2 ceiling speakers (Same as above) Living Room - Display and Separates for audio - FL, FR, CENTER, RL, RR (5.1 surround) Den - Display with 2 speakers in the wall - - want to be able to switch between stereo to speakers or audio for the displayGame Room - 4 speakers in the ceiling, Display on the wall - Plan to route video to display and audio to the speakers in the ceiling. Or just have music in the ceiling speakers Rear Deck - 2 Speakers on the side of the house - Music Kitchen - 2 Speakers - Music Only Garage - Display with 2 Ceiling Speakers - I want music or television here. Basement - Display - Not sure if i will do a sound bar or not... About 45 Zigbee Pro switches, dimmers etc All wiring is to (2) 36 u racks in my basement - Its a ranch at 2,300 sq feet What i have - (1) HC-800(3) HC-250'S (1) Control 4 8 zone amplifier(1) Control 4 I/O Extender I know i need an HDMI HBaset Cat 5/6 Matrix switch with receivers (HDMI runs are not possible) and an 16 x 16 Audio Matrix Switch I basically want video and audio to follow me. i want to wake up, watch the news in the bathroom...LOL... and then clean the den and still watch and hear it and then maybe go to the living room and then go to work in the basement and still have the audio and video. Then when the kids come over and in the same scenario i want them to be able to do their own thing. II guess i am struggling with How you control the sons tv with just a HR-250 and no on screen navigation. I get it if he uses a touchscreen or android device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Remember the HC800 also has an OSD. The SR250 has two buttons on it. Watch and listen. Press watch and a list of sources appears on the SR250 screen. Navigate to one and press select. Depending on how much music and how much control listen works well to select a radio station or a play list but for individual songs or albums it is a bit more arduous. That is where an OSD comes back into play. Also the tv speakers or ceiling speakers in the same room will not be user friendly. You should define the audio end as ceiling speakers and video as the tv and consider the screens as sound free monitors. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 they sr 250s have a mini navigator built into the display Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Remember the HC800 also has an OSD. The SR250 has two buttons on it. Watch and listen. Press watch and a list of sources appears on the SR250 screen. Navigate to one and press select. Depending on how much music and how much control listen works well to select a radio station or a play list but for individual songs or albums it is a bit more arduous. That is where an OSD comes back into play. Also the tv speakers or ceiling speakers in the same room will not be user friendly. You should define the audio end as ceiling speakers and video as the tv and consider the screens as sound free monitors. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk I think we are saying the same things.... i do not want to use the sound on the displays... i want the display to be only video and the ceiling speakers to output the audio for what i am watching on the display. does this make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 btw, i really want to thank everyone lending advice. I am a hands on person and i like to know whats going on. I cant just cut a check and say here .... do this and just make it work. Thank you all again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I think we are saying the same things.... i do not want to use the sound on the displays... i want the display to be only video and the ceiling speakers to output the audio for what i am watching on the display. does this make sense? Yes it does. I thought "want to be able to switch between stereo to speakers or audio for the display" meant you wanted to be able to switch between the TV and the Ceiling Speakers. The person setting up the system defines the video end point and audio end point for each room and the sytem maps the source accordingly. It will effectively mute the TVs that are not audio end points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 ohh ok, yeah .... i want video only on the display... then the audio for what im watching to go to the ceiling speakers. I just want to be able to switch that to music in those ceiling speakers. one day i might watch tv .... one day i might listen to a cd and output it through ALL of the ceiling speakers., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Yeah, thats what Control4 does and does well. As well as lots of other things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Adams Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 thanks for all of the help - I have decided to go with the Atlona AT-PRO2HD88M 8X8 HbaseT Hdmi Switcher and receivers.. this was mostly due to budget constraints. At $5k refurbished with a 3 year warranty this will hopefully get it up and going. I would have liked to use Just Add Power but im not spending $10 k for a 6 x 8 setup. Thanks again for all of the advice... i do appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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