turls Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 With channels being treated differently in 2.7, I decided to look into this some more. With searches here, doesn't look like much has changed. There is a topic from 2006 that is probably still relevant today. I'll just use DirecTV to start since that's what I have and am familiar with. Why are the lists so outdated and missing consistency in descriptions and icons? Where is this data coming from? I know the theory is you only use this for favorite channels, so just edit it. But wherever this data is coming from somebody could just clean it up and it would work for everybody no matter what channels you put in the cloud. Its also helpful because you might want multiple clouds for different uses (although I still don't see how to tie one cloud to a room/device or person (think kids/adults)). I know I've seen XML files posted here for the most recent XM/Sirius lineup. But for DirecTV I guess it is up to you to go find the icons. Remote Central has the best list for this purpose, it looks like, but it hasn't been updated in 10 years. And what about Roku, Apple TV, etc? I should be able to put a "MLB.TV" channel the same as I do MLB Network. I should be able to go to watch and go to that channel through a channel list. You can't do that now that I see. You might be able to choose the source and then hit one of the programmable buttons, but that isn't intuitive. In theory I would think it would help for the system to be smart enough for me to just pick the channel I want, look at the room and see what matrixed and local sources are already in use, and pick a channel from an unused source, or else a source that is already tuned to that channel. For example, I have MLB.TV on Roku, AppleTV, FireTV and Xbox One. Why should I have to worry about picking the device, just go to the channel. Hopefully I'm describing this in a way that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Its also helpful because you might want multiple clouds for different uses (although I still don't see how to tie one cloud to a room/device or person (think kids/adults)). And what about Roku, Apple TV, etc? I should be able to put a "MLB.TV" channel the same as I do MLB Network. I should be able to go to watch and go to that channel through a channel list. You can't do that now that I see. You might be able to choose the source and then hit one of the programmable buttons, but that isn't intuitive. 1. You can add multiple clouds for a system. Editing is still a mess cause you have to do it for the individual channels. not currently aware if this list can be updated. would be awesome though! 2. You could certainly add in a fake device and do some programming that if MLB.TV is selected select roku and fire off the short cut key. Not sure if apple supports app selection yet. updated thanks Cyknight ill have to try again on my system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Channels need some love! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Mlb.TV and similar setups using 'other' devices don't have cloud support. This MAY change if and when we get an updated proxy for video media devices. Though the device in question would also still need to support calling for it.As for where the lists come from - no clue and font care I never use them anyway. Loading all channels on a cloud is useless if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Channel as such work fine - they AREN'T just clumped together, the channel icon just defaults to all - you can then select the 'cloud' on the left to limit which set you're looking at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Would love to start seeing higher resolution icons though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Mlb.TV and similar setups using 'other' devices don't have cloud support. This MAY change if and when we get an updated proxy for video media devices. Though the device in question would also still need to support calling for it. That's the thing--seems like there is a lot of movement here. You've now got free IP drivers for Roku, Apple, Fire, and all of them have channel selection IIRC. Roku has been that way a while, the others are new I think. My kids would use a channel list that had Netflix, Amazon, Nick, Cartoon, etc. I think a lot of people are the same and would use this functionality with as ubiquitous and as cheap as the media boxes are--whether you have a matrix or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Apple doesn't, but I'm not disagreeing, but first all the proxies need to be updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Until then some clever customer programming for the Roku would certainly work in several scenarios, just not as easy as adding the channels in the proxy would be if they updated it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 PS. I never claimed cloud and movie had changed much, just that you now have the ability to show/hide them if you want and (more interesting to me personally) move their location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Ok, another scenario--not all my DirecTV receivers have the same channel list. Of the 3 I have matrixed, only 1 has the OTA tuner. So if I set a favorite for one of the OTA channels is there a way to force it to use that box when that channel is chosen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 PS. I never claimed cloud and movie had changed much, just that you now have the ability to show/hide them if you want and (more interesting to me personally) move their location. Let's put it this way, I never even knew I could have the channels at the top of my remote after I pressed "watch" until 2.7. Probably something else left from the crappy original setup I received that has just never been fixed. Everybody else probably knew that already. Now that's it there it seems to be really handy, or maybe its just the novelty of it being new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Yes. Somewhat.You'd have to add a second directTV cloud and tie it only to that box. This would replace the original cloud for THAT box.Downside is that channels would been to be added back to that cloud.Bigger downside is that in the combined list channels would show ups twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieumd Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Glad I came across this thread. I was about to start a similar one, regarding channels. Here's my issue, and it's not related to 2.7 as this has been ongoing and something I've finally just decided to try to see if I can get working right. I only have channels listed once in Composer, so I'm guessing 1 cloud, which is the typical setup I believe. I have 5 different rooms setup with televisions in my C4 system. The same channel list shows up under watch in each of those rooms. However, channels only work in one room, my living room. If I'm in one of the other 4 rooms, channels is there, but if I choose a channel to go to, it doesn't change to anything. I see the IR flash on the particular TV, meaning it's sending the signal to turn the TV on and to change to the cable source, but the cable boxes don't seem to be receiving any feedback or responding to the channel request anywhere besides in the living room. That said, I'm thinking one of two reasons could be causing it. My first thought is it might be my cable boxes. I use TiVo for my cable boxes and the living room has a Roamio Pro whereas the other 4 rooms have TiVo mini's. All 5 are setup with the IP driver for TiVo. There's no issues with any of the 5 boxes functioning correctly with the IP driver if I'm using the normal controls under watch then TiVo. However, channels doesn't change the minis. My next thought, maybe it's just a coincidence that channels only seem to work on the Roamio Pro and not the minis. If that's the case, do I need separate clouds for each cable box? I'm guessing I don't, as I'm sure anybody else who uses channels has it working on multiple TV's in their system. If channels wasn't showing up under watch on all 5 rooms, I'd think there was a cloud setup issue, but since it does show up with the same list, I'm leaning back toward the minis not accepting commands from channels, but does that make sense as it's the same driver as the Roamio? Any ideas what could be wrong? Lastly, if I were to get this working, how do I get clouds for each room? I really like that idea so I can have separate favorite channels listed for each room. I know that's something my integrator has to do, not sure if he's done that before though. Any specific instructions I can get to help him with that? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieumd Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I did a little further digging, and wondering if this might have anything to do with it. Each room, under Properties then the Navigator tab and then Watch, the visible stuff is listed as:[Channels] Theater Room[Movies] Theater RoomComcast Theater RoomKODI Theater RoomPS4 Theater RoomCable TV Living Room Each room has their own room items listed, but then Cable TV is listed as being from the Living Room in all of the rooms. My understanding is that The Cable TV is reference back to the Media, under Broadcast, then it says Cable TV, which is where the channel list comes from. If Cable TV Living Room is not in navigator for any of the particular rooms as visible, then Channels doesn't show up. I'm wondering why Cable TV says Living Room for every room? Could this be the problem I'm having above? Under media and broadcast, there isn't any reference to it being tied to the living room, so kind of confused and wondering if this is the problem as to why channels only work in the living room, despite showing up in every room. How can I fix this, if this is the problem of course? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 I did a little further digging, and wondering if this might have anything to do with it. Each room, under Properties then the Navigator tab and then Watch, the visible stuff is listed as:[Channels] Theater Room[Movies] Theater RoomComcast Theater RoomKODI Theater RoomPS4 Theater RoomCable TV Living Room Each room has their own room items listed, but then Cable TV is listed as being from the Living Room in all of the rooms. My understanding is that The Cable TV is reference back to the Media, under Broadcast, then it says Cable TV, which is where the channel list comes from. If Cable TV Living Room is not in navigator for any of the particular rooms as visible, then Channels doesn't show up. I'm wondering why Cable TV says Living Room for every room? Could this be the problem I'm having above? Under media and broadcast, there isn't any reference to it being tied to the living room, so kind of confused and wondering if this is the problem as to why channels only work in the living room, despite showing up in every room. How can I fix this, if this is the problem of course? Thanks! I think this is the way it works--I'm sure Cyknight will correct me if I'm wrong... The cloud is tied to a room. That's why it shows up that way. I don't think it matters which room it is in. As soon as you force the cloud to be in use in a room, you get the channels choice. Another thing I'm trying to figure out--if having genres is better than multiple clouds considering the downsides Cyknight mentioned. Looks like that's what I'm doing for now. I need to probably reduce the size of my list too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 The cloud for 'cableTV' gets automatically added in the first room that gets a TV or a cable box (sat clouds are first sat box only of course).My guess is the living room got a TV added before anything else - thus the cloud 'resides' there. It can be moved if desired, but it has ne real effect like Turls mentioned.You ARE correct that if that 'cable tv' item is HIDDEN in any other room (would have been done manually) - it will NOT show channels (or specifically channels associated with that cloud) in THAT particular room. By default ALL tvs and cable boxes get automatically connected to that cloud. So any channels added to it SHOULD be available everywhere. (yes you could manually add multiple as I briefly mentioned) However - I do not know the TiVo setup all that well, so there may be something specific about them that I'm not aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieumd Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Thanks guys. So it's pretty much what I assumed, that it most likely is a TiVo issue. There seems to be a lot of work that they need to do with that driver, especially for the Mini's. Hopefully something comes out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Thanks guys. So it's pretty much what I assumed, that it most likely is a TiVo issue. There seems to be a lot of work that they need to do with that driver, especially for the Mini's. Hopefully something comes out soon.I read that you said you see the tv ir bud flash when you select a channel in another room. That is wrong you need to disconnect the cable cloud from the TVS and then the tivo should change channels. IP control means no irs should flash when changing the channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieumd Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I read that you said you see the tv ir bud flash when you select a channel in another room. That is wrong you need to disconnect the cable cloud from the TVS and then the tivo should change channels. IP control means no irs should flash when changing the channel.Sorry, I might have said it wrong. There's no IR buds going to TiVo boxes. If I go to watch then channels in any other room, select a specific channel from the list...i then see the IR bud on the TV itself flash, meaning it's sending the On and Input signal as it always does assuming it might have of been off. In the living room, if the TV was off and I go to channels and choose one, it puts the TV on, goes to cable input, then changes channel to what I selected. However, in the other rooms, the first steps of that process with TV/Receiver take place, but nothing happens to the onscreen display of cable, meaning no channel numbers start to type in, so I'm assuming no signals are going IP to the Mini's to change the channel I selected to finish the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieumd Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Another quick follow up regarding this. It does seem as if the TiVo mini is getting feedback, it just seems to result in an invalid channel error, but the channel is correct, it works on the living room TiVo . In one of the rooms where the channels won't change, here's my LUA from the TiVo mini in that room when I choose a new channel through watch channels: ReceivedFromProxy [5001]: GET_VIDEO_PATHUnhandled Command: GET_VIDEO_PATHReceivedFromProxy [5001]: GET_VIDEO_PATHUnhandled Command: GET_VIDEO_PATHReceivedFromProxy [5001]: GET_AUDIO_PATHReceivedFromProxy [5001]: RESELECT_SOURCEParamID: PATH_TYPE - ParamValue: 1ParamID: MEDIA_ID - ParamValue: 15ParamID: ROOM_ID - ParamValue: 24ReceivedFromProxy [5001]: ONParamID: CONNECT - ParamValue: 1ReceivedFromProxy [5001]: SET_CHANNELParamID: CHANNEL - ParamValue: 244ParamID: INPUT - ParamValue: 1003ReceivedFromProxy [5001]: RESELECT_SOURCEReceivedFromProxy [5001]: GET_AUDIO_PATHParamID: PATH_TYPE - ParamValue: 3ParamID: MEDIA_ID - ParamValue: 15ParamID: ROOM_ID - ParamValue: 24ReceivedFromProxy [5001]: ONParamID: CONNECT - ParamValue: 1Unhandled Command: GET_AUDIO_PATHUnhandled Command: RESELECT_SOURCESent POWER ON to proxyCMD Sent: IRCODE LIVETVCHANNEL Received: 244CMD Sent: SETCH 244ReceivedFromNetwork [6001]: CH_FAILED INVALID_CHANNELUnhandled Command: GET_AUDIO_PATHUnhandled Command: RESELECT_SOURCESent POWER ON to proxyCMD Sent: IRCODE LIVETV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I think you need a cloud connected to each tivo mini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieumd Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I think you need a cloud connected to each tivo mini Thank you. I'll give that a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Control4 has some work to do on its media management. I think everyone can agree on that. It has been brought up on here many times. They need to create interactive guides for browsing channels, movies, recorderd shows, etc. I am attaching screenshots of my roomie setup to show the media guide for dish hopper. I can browse the channel guide, play recorded shows or currently playing shows, browse recorded shows, record shows from the guide and view scheduled recordings. It's very nice. Hopefully with the new interfaces and moving away from flash, c4 can start updating its media management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 2.8 has some changes for channels and stations. Its much better than it was, but still a long way to go. No proxies have been updated for the Apple TVs, Rokus, Fire TVs, etc. of the world. Hopefully that is next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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