Cost Effective Motion Sensors

[maskas]

Hi. I want to control majority of my lights with motion sensors. I think I would need around 40 motion sensors to do this. Any cost effective solution one could recommend? 

[dcovach]

7 minutes ago, maskas said:

Hi. I want to control majority of my lights with motion sensors. I think I would need around 40 motion sensors to do this. Any cost effective solution one could recommend? 

Any compatible zwave motion sensor paired to a vera edge or vera plus will work. Those controllers can integrate with control4. 40 sensors is a lot so you'll save the most but you'll get a better response with control4 or nyce zigbee motion sensors.  Keep in mind that if they're all battery powered, you'll have quite the maintenance schedule. Consider wired motion sensors wired to contact switches. 

[Gary Leeds UK]

Also have a look at Phillip Hue sensors - but you do need a bridge 

[jfh]

8 minutes ago, Gary Leeds UK said:

Also have a look at Phillip Hue sensors - but you do need a bridge 

 

Do you have the Phillips sensors acting as general C4 motion detectors or only triggering Hue lights?  If using in C4, what driver are you using.  The Hue sensors are certainly more affordable.

[Pounce]

@Bogdy created a driver. Looks like the site is having maint at the moment. https://www.unilogiq.com/en/control4-drivers

[Gary Leeds UK]

Yes -we use the sensor turning C4 lights on and aff - plus turning the kettle on 

[dcovach]

40 minutes ago, jfh said:

 

Do you have the Phillips sensors acting as general C4 motion detectors or only triggering Hue lights?  If using in C4, what driver are you using.  The Hue sensors are certainly more affordable.

It depends on your locale, and what product you have access to, will determine what is cheaper. A vera controller supports a lot of brands and other device types so expandability and variety will be an advantage over Philips hue.  I can't comment on the reliability of Philips hue as I do not use it but I can vouch for vera as I use it personally.

[maskas]

3 hours ago, dcovach said:

Any compatible zwave motion sensor paired to a vera edge or vera plus will work. Those controllers can integrate with control4. 40 sensors is a lot so you'll save the most but you'll get a better response with control4 or nyce zigbee motion sensors.  Keep in mind that if they're all battery powered, you'll have quite the maintenance schedule. Consider wired motion sensors wired to contact switches. 

I agree with you on the wired point, otherwise there will be too many batteries to change. When you say the response will be better on Nyce Sensors, are you talking about the lag between detection and the specified action taking place? How long do you reckon the lag would be in? Both with Zwave and Nyce? 

I read some other posts on here where people were using the motion detectors on their DSC or similar alarm systems to trigger lights etc. Do you think that could be an option as well?

[maskas]

2 hours ago, Gary Leeds UK said:

Also have a look at Phillip Hue sensors - but you do need a bridge 

From what I was reading there seems to be a limit of 12 sensors per hub. Not sure if I can have multiple hubs in one network.

[dcovach]

12 minutes ago, maskas said:

I agree with you on the wired point, otherwise there will be too many batteries to change. When you say the response will be better on Nyce Sensors, are you talking about the lag between detection and the specified action taking place? How long do you reckon the lag would be in? Both with Zwave and Nyce? 

I read some other posts on here where people were using the motion detectors on their DSC or similar alarm systems to trigger lights etc. Do you think that could be an option as well?

The lag may not be noticeable enough to be an annoyance but every time you introduce a hop (bridge, vera controller) that also introduces a link for failure. Having said that, the vera has been solid for me. 

I definitely recommend integrating a security system (especially dsc) if you already have motion sensors.  Those can be used for programming in control4.

[CFUG]

I use both Card Access and DSC sensors- very little lag.  I only automate those lights needed for safety & convenience.  Your payback on 40 sensors will be similar to my payback on a PV system- crappy.

[maskas]

@dcovach this is for a new build so nothing in there yet. We would be doing a security system, but it would need to be a lot more extensive (as a lot more zones would be needed, if I understand correctly each motion sensor would require it's own zone?) Could you possibly recommend some specific models I could look at? 

Also would this setup be responsive and reliable as the Nyce sensors?

[maskas]

1 minute ago, CFUG said:

I use both Card Access and DSC sensors- very little lag.  I only automate those lights needed for safety & convenience.  Your payback on 40 sensors will be similar to my payback on a PV system- crappy.

I get what you're saying. Not doing it for payback, more for convenience. Which DSC sensors are you using? And how are they integrated with Control4?

[Pounce]

For new construction I would only hard wire. What are you doing for your lighting? Centralized would be my recommendation.

[maskas]

@Pounce I would prefer hard wire as well. But trying to do something more effective then then Nyce/Control4 ones. The lighting will be panelized, either Control4 or Lutron (Homeworks QS).

We have a fair bit of power outages and voltage fluctuations, and am being told the Lutron Homeworks QS with stands that better then then Control4 ones. Personally would prefer to keep all Control4, but may have to do Lutron with Control4 as the controller.

[CFUG]

20 minutes ago, maskas said:

I get what you're saying. Not doing it for payback, more for convenience. Which DSC sensors are you using? And how are they integrated with Control4?

Just your typical wired dual-tech sensor, I don't know, whatever they used 10 years ago...  How is it integrated?  Through the DSC alarm board of course (serial to the HC).

[CFUG]

Keep in mind, your not going to be wiring for motions all over the place (unless you specifically want this).  Dry contacts for the entry and windows are fool-proof.  Motions (tied to an alarm) typically blanket large areas and supplement contact-sensor points as bad guys can always defeat those and then move around the interior at will.  I don't see Control4/Card Access motions as being less-effective as sensitivity and occupancy time is adjustable which is worth something.

[maskas]

@CFUG I actually want to use these sensors to turn lights and air conditioning on and off, not really using them for security. Hence need them to be responsive as well.

[CFUG]

Yes, but you can double-duty some of those motions can't you?  Are you sure you want to be cycling AC compressor(s) on/off that much or would the motion just turn it on?  You keep mentioning responsiveness.  I don't see any difference between wired DSC motions and those from CA/C4.  They all report back to the HC just fine.  

[Pounce]

Honeywell Aurora's or IS335's are about $20.

Do you have pets? If you do you may want a sensor with some degree of configuration for ignoring small objects. If not the cat is going to light up your house.

[maskas]

Yes ofcourse will double duty them where required. Will do both turn on and off, but will delay the time off so it shouldn't be an issue. Plus it's a VRF airconditoner so it's multi zone itself. By responsiveness I mean, by the time the sensor detects the motion and the alarm control panel communicates the same to the C4 panel.

[maskas]

@Pounce no pets for the moment. But probably best to get something with configurability. Which driver do you use in Control4 for the alarm control panel?

[dcovach]

There are brand and model specific drivers for security integration. 

[yelkenli]

I am also looking for a good motion sensor, and one that has a sensitivity selection to allow for pets. 

Here is what I have found so far on pricing.  Not much on sensitivity though. Only the cardAccess product mentions this. Not all of these are wireless, which I can go either way - wireless easier. 

Does anyone have any experience with the sensitivity part?

Enerwave Z-Wave Plus Ceiling Sensor, Z-Wave Sensor, Ceiling Mount Sensor for Z-Wave Home Automation, ZWN-BPC-PLUS, White
$46
sensitivity selection unknown

WMS10-C-ZP
$99
sensitivity selection: yes

Hu Motion sensor
$39
Plus $50 Hue bridge
Sensitivity selection unknown

 

Nyce Ncz-3043-ha ZigBee Ceiling Motion Sensor
$61 - HA version
C4 version unknown - does anyone have cost on this?  does this have to come through a dealer? 
sensitivity selection unknown

Bravo5 Motion Detector (Ceiling Mount Passive It Detector With Form A Alarm Contact) - Model#: bv-500
$50
+ integration through DSC panel
sensitivity selection unknown

 

Honeywell 997
eBay post
$40
sensitivity selection unknown

Looks like the cardAccess product

I assume a bridge is needed to C4

 

 

[Gary Leeds UK]

We also have about 6 of these guys around the house 

http://axxind.com/automation/motion-sensor/

You have sensitivity on these and it works well - We have one outside