Buidling A New House

[beefdiesel]

Hey guys, I know this question has been asked a ton on here, but wanted to get some additional input. I'm going to start construction on a new house later this summer and would like to incorporate Control4. I haven't had a chance to meet with my dealer yet, but wanted to get some input from everyone.

Outside of the usual items (running speaker wire, cat5 to TV's and thermostats, 18/2 to the garage doors, etc.) what else would you do during rough-in? I'm thinking more of like where to put in keypads, be it a 2, 3 or 6, and where a touchscreen might be nice? I'm not building a mansion here, just a three bedroom with an open kitchen/living room. I was thinking a touchscreen in the kitchen and master bedroom and then a 6 button in the other two bedrooms and on the covered deck. Maybe something in the garage? The house is going to have an unfinished basement so not worried about incorporating that at this point. Would you put anything in the garage other than a normal dimmer to run the lights? Just wanted to see what everyone else is doing for system control.

Thanks in advance for all the help!

[snipboy]

I recently built a new house too, and my dealer at the time did a lousy job prepping it/me at the time for future uses of the C4 system.

Here are my lessons learned:

-Run power to multiple outside locations around the house: Front, back, sides of home (for future camera use)

-Run Cat6 EVERYWHERE you can afford -- many devices are PoE now--might as well take advantage of that. C4 and a few others have some cool Video door bells that are PoE. Might be spendy now, but your budget might expand or you'll find something cheap online down the road

-Build that HDMI Matrix into the Rough

-Run condiut between rooms--not just from potential media equipment racks

-Wire the Master bedroom for 5.1 or 7.1 surround (especially if you have small kids still)

-All interior rooms that do not have a window (hallways, laundry room, master closet, pantry, garage interior lights) can and should run on cheapo motion sensing light switches -- don't waste your C4 dollars doing those spaces

-Balance your dimmers between security and real life use -- those dimmers are very expensive new -- balance out lighting critical use spaces with spaces that you would want folks outside your house to think you are in when you are gone-- in my house I have several rooms that I am never in, but are in the front of the house--when those lights come on when we are gone it looks "lived in"

-Get the Garage Door CardAccess door sensors--greatest investment of my money ever

-Get Composer Home Edition and the free one year of 4Sight---it's a great deal! (then contact Godzilla to tutor you in using it--he's a great teacher)

-Look for deals on used C4 items on this forum and Craigslist locally, but generally avoid Ebay (a lot of us have sob stories about there, personally I am out a couple hundred bucks from faulty equipment, however I've scored a few awesome items at great deals because I was willing to risk)

-C4 is not just a Home Automation system. It is an addiction for some. You are never satisfied with what you can do and want more. I had no idea when I got started just how large my C4 project would become--that's why planning during the Roughing stage is critical so that down the road when the salary increases or you find an awesome deal, you are ready to pretty much plug and play

Hope this helps!

[qVAMPIREp]

Run 2 Cat6a STP everywhere and a 4-6 strand of 10GB fibre. No one should be running Cat5 anymore period! If your dealer ran that for you they are total nincompoops. They ran the cheapest shit there is when for a small incremental cost your network would be 10G ready and could handle HDMI, 4k etc without a problem

[Cyknight]

First - there's a new lighting generation, 2-3-6 buttons no longer "exist" unless you intend to get it all second-hand. Check Control4's website for more details.

If you're wiring now - just wire back to the doors as you mentioned (be sure to have a sensor too) - the CA set is good when you CAN'T get wires.

Nothing is better than having EVERY light on C4 - but yes budget counts. However keep the ZigBee Mesh in mind, cutting back on lighting could mean investing in other equipment to keep your remotes working.

If you're doing new - don't overlook panelized lighting as an option.

Instead of everyone bothering godzilla all the time, be sure to check the forums and c4diy as well for HE

Don't cut back on wiring - limit what you do NOW, not what you can do LATER use Cat6, get redundancy down etc.

Good wall=panel locations are crossings between rooms in open spaces (easy access from both "rooms".

Garage speakers are my second most used speakers - but that depends on the person of course.

Summertime sports-fan? Wire for a TV outside - true outdoor rated TVs are expensive but a normal TV in a decent cabinet can be moved in/out for winter or very bad weather, and watching the finals next to a fire-pit and a BBQ is fun. So is watching a movie on a warm summer night...

[3fingerbrown]

The 3/6 button keypads just need power, they run off of wifi/zigbee. So you don't need to worry about those, you usually place them next to lightswitches, so power isn't even an issue.

The touch screens are pricey, I would resist installing too many of those, as you can use phones and ipads. We have one in the family room/kitchen. They run off wifi just fine, but they can also be wired with cat5.

I ran 1.5" flex conduit in certain key locations (from the projector location to the rack, and from certain TV mount locations back to possible source locations).

I would second the suggestion to run quality cat6, it isn't much more money.

People often say on this forum you can't run too much cat5/6, but I disagree. That wire has to go somewhere, and adds to the complexity and can make a mess. There is a convergence of sources and devices, and these days, you don't need as much cat5/6 as you used to.

[tebery]

As far as lighting wiring, wire as if you do not have a HA system. You always want the ability to have a full functioning house without home automation.

One thing I always kick myself for not doing is prewiring for motorized blinds. Also prewire all windows and door for contacts (2nd floor also).

[ichbinbose]

wired is always better than wireless - period. Its more reliable, and faster. Did I mention more reliable?

Always run as much Cat5/6 as you can. Its a PITA to need more later and not be able to do it. Better to have too much than not enough.

As for managing it, all you need to do is punch it all down into a proper network patch panel. This allows you to not only properly manage the cables, it also allows for greater flexibility. This is also considered the standard in commercial.

You can also pull different colored cables to further minimize any "confusion". So you could use a Grey cat6 for data/network, green for video, yellow for control and blue for a spare/future proof/back up/what ever. You could even put each color into its own patch panel.

Also I can not stress this enough - document, document, document - everything.

[ILoveC4]

As far as lighting wiring, wire as if you do not have a HA system. You always want the ability to have a full functioning house without home automation.

One thing I always kick myself for not doing is prewiring for motorized blinds. Also prewire all windows and door for contacts (2nd floor also).

I second wiring the lighting as you would normally.

RE: wiring for blinds...I regret not doing that too...I'm now looking at battery powered options =(

[jillmark99]

Great idea on the colour coded wiring.

As for the blinds I highly recommend roughing it in now if there is a chance you will put them in later. I just finished running wires to all of my blinds and what a pain in the ass having to pull all the trim in a finished house to install this. Glad it's done now though.

[Godzilla]

Instead of everyone bothering godzilla all the time, be sure to check the forums and c4diy as well for HE

nice to know someone's making sure i get some sleep........lol

[kmonty2]

Also make sure you have a pipe running into the attic from the basement. This will give you a clear shot if you have to add anything later. It is even more important if you are building a colonial. I am coming to the finish stages of my house now and the only thing I wish I did was power for blinds for the widows on the open family room, they are second floor height and we did not know if we were even going to put blinds in, now we are.

[ichbinbose]

Also make sure you have a pipe running into the attic from the basement. This will give you a clear shot if you have to add anything later. It is even more important if you are building a colonial. I am coming to the finish stages of my house now and the only thing I wish I did was power for blinds for the widows on the open family room, they are second floor height and we did not know if we were even going to put blinds in, now we are.

a wire chase can absolutely save you

another good point is that it is a good idea to wire for anything you can think of. You may not know or think that you are going to do something but life throws us little curves from time to time and if it is already wired than it makes it much easier, faster, reliable and saves cost and frustration in the long run vs. the old "its all wireless" nonsense that GC's around the world try to claim on a daily basis.

As wireless expands (and it is at a very high rate) this space gets more crowded, which in turn adds to its own fun issues. Also remember all wireless items still require power. So you also get the fun task of dealing with dead & weak batteries causing intermittent reliability issues.

[RyanE]

I wired my multi-button keypad locations with CAT5, and put them at 'touchpanel' height, so if I ever wanted to (and had the budget), I could 'upgrade' them to touchpanels.

RyanE

[ichbinbose]

I wired my multi-button keypad locations with CAT5, and put them at 'touchpanel' height, so if I ever wanted to (and had the budget), I could 'upgrade' them to touchpanels.

RyanE

Ryan, how high are your regular switches? While I was visiting family in TX, I noticed that the switches were all installed significantly higher than there in the Chicago area.

[RyanE]

I don't remember how high my 'regular' switches are, and I'm not at home at the moment.

My keypads are at 'eye-level' for someone around 5' 6" high, so a bit below my eye level.

RyanE

[beefdiesel]

Thanks guys for all the tips. I agree, you can't run too much Cat6 and flex conduit.

I didn't realize C4 came out with new switches. Looking at the website, is the dimmer and keypad functionality combined into one unit. I.E. Do I need to have both the switch leg and power going into a junction box? I'm doing the majority of the wiring so just wanted to cover my bases here. With traditional 6 button keypads, do guys plan an extra gang in a switch box for them or do you install a separate single gang box just for the keypad?

I had originally thought one touchscreen in the kitchen and then a double gang switch box in the bedrooms for the fan light and motor and then a separate single gang switch box for the keypad. What are guys doing here? I do have some legacy 6 button keypads I had planned on using, but these new C4 dimmers look awfully interesting. Thanks again for all the help!

[Cyknight]

How you want to do your keypads is up to you, whatever you prefer. For myself I don't do them separate, but in a multigang because it takes up less space - ie less clutter.

The dimmer/keypad combo is one unit that just allows you to still have a load controlling dimmer in a spot AND do a keypad at the same time - nice because again, it's less clutter. It would essentially wire up a a normal dimmer would in a single "switch" location.

For multiple locations you have the same option as always to put a keypad in (or a switch which can now be set to act as a "2-button" keypad) - only power required OR you have the auxiliary keypad.

That piece is intended mainly for a cheap replacement in retro though - understand that it is not back-lit, does not do zigbee and is not programmable.

[beefdiesel]

That makes sense. Thanks for the help!