badjesus Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 So, i know the general discussion is "HDMI Matrix...es (marticies? what is plural here?) are only as good as you pay for"Hand down, one of my favorite from all the research and what I have seen in action with C4 has got to be the SNAP AV Binary units for the price. BUT.... imagine... if we actually found a very LOW cost and EXPANDABLE solution for HDMI that was on the CHEAP.I came across these recently (chinese product being sold out of Vancouver Canada) http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Brightlink-HDMI-smart-matrix-over-cat6-cable-Gigabit-Smart-Switch-1080P-400-ft-/221372991331?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item338adbc763 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/HDMI-Extender-Transmitter-CAT5-CAT6-120m-400ft-1080p-2-channel-Audio-IR-function-/221374177995?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item338aede2cb(They have an actual store but I believe the EBAY link shows everything in the simplest and best way.)I believe it is using simple IGMP to control the switch. I am lost though, on how I would be able to get C4 to control a unit like this. No IR, no RS232.... and well... my Cisco skills are pretty lack luster.Has anyone looked at this stuff? Tried it out? Seen where the downfalls really are?They even have a simple 4x4 matrix in the sub $200 category that seems to be better than Monoprices. Anyways, I wanted to see what people have to say about it. Maybe someone is willing to try and tackle a C4 driver for this?It would be nice to have an alternative to the Audio Authority http://www.audioauthority.com/techdocs/focus_HD-IP_matrix.pdfor any of the J.A.P. stuff.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Marticies? How about "matrix switches". That's plural for " matrix switch". Sent from my Droid MAXX via Tapatalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Matrices.The audio authority stuff as controllable was cancelled years ago, unless they re-introduced it (and fixed the fact that any power out made the whole setup crash). Control would be done at the switch used, via serial or ip. 'On the cheap' as a good thing tends to send shivers down my spine - I tried a small setup of these by the way. I think they do well as coasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Hey Cyknight, can you elaborate on the issues you had?I can understand the shivers, but there is a reality where not everyone can afford to drop $2000 on a matrix setup. Sometimes "meh... it works good enough for my own home, for now" is a needed solution. Especially with something that is expandable. C4 is not a DIY product... I understand... BUT there are those of us that have made it that. I have a pretty decent setup with my C4 and security from intercoms, screens, lights, door locks, 12 audio zoned sonos, fireplacr, climate, etc but I am missing all of my video control. Unfortunately I can't drop another $2000 to $10,000 for a decent 8 zone HDMI matrix. Unfortunately I have to be looking at the "on the cheap" for now. I am expecting annoyances, bugs, lags, delays but the real question is can I use it with C4 to get video from my basement rack to all TV's for now till I can add in a proper hbaseT matrix. A photographer friend posted something that I think about often in the electronics industry. There was a post going around FB where someone was making fun of a photographer that tried to recreate specific photos for a clients wedding "on the cheap". The client loved them but everyone was doing a comparison with " epic fail" as the caption. The fact is, there is different quality for different budgets. Like he said, his $10,000 fee is going to produce different photos than someone for $100 but that doesn't mean that person with the $100 shouldn't vet photos and that doesn't mean that $10,000 photographer should discount his work. There is room for all budgets and all levels of product. Ones man's junk is another's solution. The client knew she was going to get $100 worth of quality but it was all she could afford and at the end of they day they worked for what she needed to capture her day... She was happy... Epic fail or not.You seem to be a bit of a guru on here and someone's who opinion and experience I can respect. If you have tinkered with this stuff and got it to work (at all) I am uber excited to hear any and all info you can give me on them before I drop $500 on them. There is no doubt I will eventually do a binary 8x8 b500 but this year is not that year.I am pre-wired completely. I have 9 lines of cat6, 2 coax, and extra 16-4 to each room. Maybe I am better off with a few splitters and do local source switching at each TV but I would prefer to have a full switching matrix even if it is just to tool around with. The only concern right now is how to control the switching of the vlans to match tranceuver to receiver from C4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What size is the matrix you're looking for? 2k for and 8x8 with cat distribution IS on the cheap side. Make no mistake, I have zero issue with that coming down and fast, but reality is that it hasn't, in part because Hdmi is still evolving at a rapid pace (just wish they'd make it better instead of adding more crap).I've tested and still test many cheaper solution at my own cost, but to date I've found nothing that really works acceptable. They have issues with certain sources, certain tvs, can't handle a mixed EDID, need rebooting too often (.often once a week or less - that may sound liken acceptable trade off but trust me it'll get VERY tiring very fast).I could accept a quarterly reboot if it worked well otherwise and was a very cheap option for those on a budget, but more than that just won't do for me. And I've yet to find it.On the piece specifically where it's failed most of all is that it fails often in my test setup to make the switch from one source to another, losing source connection if it goes to protected content and occasionally not making the handshake with a random TV. Like I said, they do well as a coaster. They may be viable for split distribution of one source to many, but switching...I understand the desire for cheaper solutions and would love to offer them, and understand that for the DIY user the benchmark may be lower than what I can offer (and support), but to date I haven't seen anything at least modular that I could suggest even as a last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 This is where I usually chime in and comment that for $2k you can put a TiVo mini behind those seven screens and get live tv, dvr, hulu, Netflix, Rhapsody, Pandora and more to each screen with full C4 integration. True you can't watch DVD everywhere or the PlayStation but you get rock solid scalable distribution at a good price. I think TiVo mini and lifetime is about the same price as HD base T baluns. You could always add media streamer behind and backup your DVDs to a NAS to get DVD. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Cyknight - Thanks I appreciate the feedback. It is funny that right now $2000 is on the cheap. The sad reality is, if anyone came to market with a cheaper product that worked and people actually bought it, the entire industry would come down. Unfortunately companies like SNAPAV are going the other way with it. They are getting more expensive, not cheaper. They truly could dominate the market. Companies like JAP as well. It appears as though they used to be proactive on this forum but for those of us doing this ourselves there is no market for them. So I understand why there are no options. I think what I am going to end up doing, is using multiple 1x8 splitters and using simple baluns to run throughout the house. At the end of the day, I get away with 2 sources so that is only 2 splitters. Any suggestions? SMHarman. there is no need for any of those boxes when all TV's are smart (or have a chrome cast there also). The issue is my C4 navigator, Computer Source at each TV, and my PVR's from bell. I want to be able to pause a live event in one room and pick it up in the other room but I don't want to get rid of my satellite for (in my opinion) lesser quality signal by going to a cable gateway unit or shared IP based TV STB. Tivo will not do any of that in Canada and is an extremely sub par option for what I require. Tivo launched her a few years back (I was a retailer for them)... wow did it bomb fast! Our STB's don't work well with TIVO. For all of the music services mentioned, I have SONOS in each room. The audio outputs need to be from the basement as that is my termination point for the speakers in each room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 We'll yes you would replace the bell with the TiVo but clearly not in Canada. Pause and screenshift live tv etc. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 There are still cheaper options for DIY, for example a had I matrix that is just hdmi out, then mess around with cheaper non hdbaset baluns. It's messier, can mean taking quite some time to find baluns that work well for tvs you have, and it may mean changing baluns as you get new tvs - though of course now you're only replacing one balun, vs replacing a cheap integrated version.The limitation right now is mostly on the all in one solutions where, with everything in one box, it HAS to work well across the board. One often mentioned option is a mono price switch and baluns, you should be able to do that for less then 2k.That sort of setup is more work, especially for a clean install, and therefore usually not viable for a company to install for you - the lanor cost would put it on par with the more expensive options - but labor, if you do it yourself, isnt a problem.4k may sound like lots of money, but consider this: if you have 6 tvs and want bell pvrs, that's 6x 499 dollars. That let's say 4k switch can cut 4 of them away in a two person household, becoming a 2k switch. Take 5 100 dollar blurays out of the equation and you're down to 1500 investment. Remove 5 apple tvs.....you get the idea.The prices attached to a switch may look high face value, but don't forget what it may save you on source costs is all that in a saying.It'd be great if prices could drop to a point where a central system becomes a money saver, but even now the final investment is often far less than it may seem if you run the numbers through vs a system with all local sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I've got a 2x4 HDMI Chinese matrix for $199 that is working beautifully.. The key though is IR control. Without that, you are not going to get anywhere around here IMHO... Getting someone to write C4 serial or IP control of a cheap Matrix (even if it could be controlled this way) is just not going to happen.. Not when Control4 itself sells rebadged Matrix's for 10x.... even 20x this price... So my take on this, is the only way you are going to get C4 integration of a cheap Chinese Matrix is to source one with IR control: then get a dealer to make an IR driver...which is pretty easy to do and very cost effective (labour cost of around an hour)... My 2 cents on this issue. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 ^ Of course if one wants to go down the "cheap matrix" route, make sure it's HDMI binding and switching works flawlessly first, before getting the dealer to do the C4 IR control bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 And of course all these HDMI switches are not forward compatible with 2.0http://www.avsforum.com/t/1523994/hdmi-2-0-cedia-webinar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I've got a 2x4 HDMI Chinese matrix for $199 that is working beautifully.. The key though is IR control. Without that, you are not going to get anywhere around here IMHO... Getting someone to write C4 serial or IP control of a cheap Matrix (even if it could be controlled this way) is just not going to happen.. Not when Control4 itself sells rebadged Matrix's for 10x.... even 20x this price... So my take on this, is the only way you are going to get C4 integration of a cheap Chinese Matrix is to source one with IR control: then get a dealer to make an IR driver...which is pretty easy to do and very cost effective (labour cost of around an hour)... My 2 cents on this issue. Cheers. I wrote a serial driver for the Monoprice Matrix that is available on this forum. There are others floating around as well. IR Control blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSDave Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I wrote a serial driver for the Monoprice Matrix that is available on this forum. There are others floating around as well. IR Control blows.I've written serial driver as well for the 2x4 monoprice matrix and the 4x4 with the built in extenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 LSDave, could I bug you for the driver for the 4x4 monoprice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingzz Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 does anyone have a IR driver for a Monoprice 1x4 switch, just figured I'd check if there was one made before I tried to make one myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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