Minisoda_c4 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I've been working on system design and the structured wiring plan for home automation and security in our upcoming build. As our plan comes together, it's becoming clear that we'll be tighter on our budget than I anticipated. I love the home automation and security stuff, so I don't mind doing more of the leg work myself. I may even see if the builder will let me handle structured wiring... as the plan comes together, I can see it easily being $5k or more. Anyway, the folks over at Cocoontech forums helped me review the Elk security system design (I will DIY that entire system). You can see what that design looks like here: https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A3G6XBubJ8jb0R;3B2CC2E1-2525-497E-B9B3-737CF42DD69F Over the past couple of days I started mapping out the structured wiring and high level design for the rest of the system. Right now this includes everything except lighting (which will probably be wireless anyway). Please take a look at the high level plan and let me know what I'm missing here. One thing I'll need to address is 6 button switches. I don't have any included yet, but think they would be heavily used. Here is the start of my HA design and structured wiring plan: https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A3G6XBubJ8jb0R;18A2024A-CD56-41BC-BC53-614B6973F90F Thanks for your feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdvr Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Umm. I am sorry but cute dog, and really cool jacket. Did you mean to include those items? Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minisoda_c4 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Weird... it should have just brought up the image unless you click back to the main folder then there is pictures of dogs, cars, houses and all kinds of stuff! Actually, let me post the diagrams inline. Security System Design: Home Automation Design: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaffle8 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Looks good, but I would probably upgrade the 4x4 matrix to and 8x8 and consolidate some of the genies and ATVs. Make sure you get a good router as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minisoda_c4 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 An 8x8 matrix definitely makes sense design wise, but the $6-7k price tag is just absurd. It seemed like a 4x4 was significantly less expensive and I thought the local Genie mini's and ATV's would work really well. Am I in the right ballpark for an 8x8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 It depends on the 8x8. Good products can be had for much cheaper than that. Shoot me a PM if you're interested in pricing them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4GA Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 My 2 cents: Keep in mind that you can ALWAYS add to this system (video cameras are nice to have, but not an absolute must - at least not for me). I have a 4X4 cheap ($300) monoprice HDMI matrix and it has worked like a champ for 5 years. I wouldn't say the picture quality is as nice as a direct HDMI connection, but for me works great. I will probably invest in a good 8x8 matrix within the next year (we currently only have 4 TVs, but my wife wants one in her office, and so do I - we both work from home); I would invest in one upfront. Big money, but you can save down the road. Save some money on the 6 DirecTV genies - load 3 or 4 of them up in the rack and distribute. If you watch stuff that you don't want the kids piggybacking/watching in the other room, then just program the system to not allow them (I set a 'privacy' variable, and if they try to watch that particular DVR, it won't let them - it changes the matrix output to a different DVR). I can do that with any of the inputs. Also, if you don't have all 4 apple TVs, then buy two and put in the rack - again, it will save you money upfront. While we have 4 TVs, I only have two DirectTV DVRs - one kids and one parents. We also distribute apple TV and currently a Disk Changer (have a project under way to rip 300+ DVDs and Bluerays and stream from NAS). I like having everything centrally located - I can control things much easier that way. If kids are sleeping in the basement, I can turn off the TV at a certain time, and they can't turn it back on (they can manually, but the matrix won't set the input they want unless they use the remote, and the system won't let them - my equipment room is locked). I would purchase quality equipment that you can grow into, and look to add in the future. I went with monoprice cheap because I was out of money, and 5 years ago, an 8X8 matrix was $8k - $10k (they are more like $3-$6k now). I have 3 cat 5e (wish I had insisted on Cat 6) to each TV (wish I had gone with 4 - 2 for HDMI over ethernet, 1 for IR control, and one for smart TV). I also have 2 RG6 to each TV location (12 locations) - never used them once. I could have saved some money there. I too am not afraid of DIY - my rack and rats nest is a testament to that - a hog leg of wire and a jumbled mess into the back of the rack. I am going to start cleaning it up over the holidays - bought a couple of patch panels and a labeler. Running wire isn't that hard, just no 90 degree bends in the wire and don't pull/yank the wire too hard. Looks like you have things thought out. Good luck and let us know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmonty2 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Why would you sub in CAT5e wire for anything. Just pull CAT6 to everything that will be IP, it's not much more money. Otherwise you don't need a gigabit switch. If needed, you can buy different colors so you know what is what when you get to the rack. This way you won't have to tone everything out. Or at lease save a little time not checking every camera wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 New house I would be pulling cat6 without a doubt and fiber as well. I'd also make sure I had several 2" lv conduit chases in place from basement equipment room to every floor Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 New house I would be pulling cat6 without a doubt and fiber as well. I'd also make sure I had several 2" lv conduit chases in place from basement equipment room to every floor Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkReally Fiber? Cat6. I just pulled a gut reno apartment. After much debate it is mostly CAT5e. Cat6s to each potential tv location and no fiber. What do you think you will be needing to shift around your home at higher than gigabit speeds. HVEC at say 20Mbps. Even say ULTRA HVEC at 40Mbps is barely a dent in that Gigabit network, certainly not fiber worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minisoda_c4 Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 Couple quick things: - If Cat6 is similar in price I would definitely go that route.- Some of the proposed cat5e runs wouldn't even be for data, so throughput is not an issue I could be wrong here, but I believe Cat5e is the minimum for 1 Gbps Ethernet. 10 Gbps Ethernet would require cat6 and expensive switching gear. Fiber in a home is completely unnecessary and expensive... if there were a need for fiber, MAYBE it could be used within the rack. Large enterprises are even staying away from it in favor of copper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Couple quick things:- If Cat6 is similar in price I would go that route. Fiber in a home is completely unnecessary and expensive... if there were a need for fiber, MAYBE it could be used within the rack. Large enterprises are even staying away from it in favor of copper.But cat6 will always be more as the patch panels and jacks are more money and termination is more fiddly so time or money there. In a DC cat7 gets you to 10 gigabit over 100m / 40 gigabit at 50m / 100 gigabit at 10m. Why bother with fiber. Fiber is necessary for speed and distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 ^queue GoGo delicious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm, doing it all again and putting in Cat6. and One 75M Cat7 between two switches between buildings.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 ^queue GoGo delicious....Who installed top o the line crestron which is a fiber based system. If you HC and video baluns required fiber then this would not be a conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm, doing it all again and putting in Cat6. and One 75M Cat7 between two switches between buildings.... And at those lengths I'm sure you could do mostly 5e and a 6s And get a similar result for what you need to distribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Cat6 is marginally more expensive and termination really isn't any different Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 But still 100mbs point to point on 5e what future state hardware needs more than that? 8k tv at h265 compression? you can't get that to the home in any sensible manner yet or for a good while yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Future proofing. Easier and cheaper to do it once, especially for the small price difference. At this point most cable manufactures produce more cat6 then 5 because most installations use 6 vs 5. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yeah but I think you are in the Rumsfeldian world of unknown unknowns by then. With the shorter runs in most homes (well under 100m / 340ft) you are getting better that CAT5e performance on CAT5 when connected to cat6 gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWRobinson Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The Control4 HDMI switch can run all these over a single cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWRobinson Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I have 3 cat 5e (wish I had insisted on Cat 6) to each TV (wish I had gone with 4 - 2 for HDMI over ethernet, 1 for IR control, and one for smart TV). I also have 2 RG6 to each TV location (12 locations) - never used them once. I could have saved some money there. This is the quote, not sure what happened the first time. This all runs over a single wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I strongly feel the rg6 to tv locations comes Into the don't be weird category. You move out the next owner does not want your fancy complicated control 4 and just wants a cable box in a media console under the tv. They need Rg6 at the tv.Ironically while I get my install ducks in a row I am using my Rg6 pull as the hardware is all under the tv not in the rack (without a rack yet) space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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