winestem Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I have a C4 system at my house and I asked my dealer to install some Roku systems on a couple of the TVs. I soon realized that the Rokus were connected directly to the TVs they sat near. This meant that the sound came from the TV speakers themselves and not the speakers set in the room that handle the normal sound from the TV. (The same is true for a BlueRay DVD player). Raising the volume on the TV is a terrible solution, and makes the entire act of watching Netflix or HBO go or whatever, a frustrating experience. So...I asked the dealer why the Rokus couldn't be connected to the Control4 sound system in the house, like the TVs themselves are! Here's the answer I got, but I don't understand it! "Your main switcher in the basement rack is a Neothings Borrego Component Video switch 8x4 which does not support HDMI at all. To get the Roku and Blu-Ray in the basement that device would have to be upgraded to an HDMI Matrix switch and put extenders to feed HDMI to the Televisions. Currently your video is all over component Video (outdated)Off of your project:Your DirecTv is using Component Video to the Component video matrix, out of the matrix component video to the living room TV input component video 1. You are not using HDMI in your house video distribution. Also looking at your Audio sources on the Amplifier side you are out of inputs on it. I know you are using Control4 as a system in whole, not to correct you but to educate. Control4 just tells the other systems what to do. (power on, power off, and switch inputs, lighting and sound distribution). When you say Control4 won't accept it would be incorrect. It is the other devices that will not accept it. An example would be your theater. It has a JVC projector, a Denon receiver a Samsung blu-ray and a Roku system. The Control4 system will tell the projector to turn on, tell the Denon receiver to turn on and go to the blu-ray input, then tell the blu-ray to turn on. If the control4 is not working all of those devices will work individually. But if say the Denon fails the Control4 will still turn on the projector, it will still turn on the blu-ray. All Control4 really does is tell the other devices what to do, and in your house it does the lighting and sound amplification as well. Hence in this case the Neothings Borrego video matrix switch is outdated and will only accept component video. Your house audio distribution system is Left and right analog stereo. " Could someone tell me what the hell this all means? I've been unable to get any more of an answer. And in the meantime, I'm frustrated by the awful sound quality playing out of the TV's built in speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoskiguy Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Get yourself an HDFury and that will allow the HDMI out to go into your component matrix. I've done that and it works perfect. There are cheaper converters than HDFury, but I've heard of issues with those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winestem Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Approximate costs? Where does it sit? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaffle8 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 +1 for the HD Fury. You should also consider the and HDMI matrix now instead of the HD Fury. You will more than likely be forced into getting one at some point if you want to keep your video distribution. Hdmi video distribution, although pricey, is well worth it. Control4 does a pretty good job of negotiating things, but your dealer is right, if one non Control4 device fails or gets flakey, Control4 gets the blame. I think you may need your dealer to physically walk through your system with you so that you understand more about how it works and learn more about the terminology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaffle8 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Here is matrix for sale http://www.c4forums.com/topic/16935-fs-c4-hdmi-8x8-matrix/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 OP, I"m in the same boat but choose not to spend anymore on infrastructure changes. The Borrego is great kit. You can keep it but, as you've been warned, not all equipment will connect up to it. You're lucky in that Direct stills uses component on their DVRs. Widgets exist to convert and I too use HDFury because it works 100% of the time. Your choice- you can spend a few K on change-out of your existing matrix or just patch-in with widgets those pieces that only have HDMI-out. Nothing to get terribly excited over. There's always going to be some product out there to cover your backside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hmm that last bit seems a bit weird. I'm guessing you made some comment about your C4 system 'failing' or some such? Understandable, but though it's packaged rather clumsily, you dealer isn't wrong (assuming this is the case). This has little to nothing to do with Control4, but with the devices the C4 system is controlling. Based on the info there, it sounds like there are a few issues. 1) You have a Component central video switch.Roku, AppleTV and many others including most to all BluRay players no longer have component outputs. I'm not going into the details on how, why, what but it's a fact you can't get around. Thus these devices cannot natively be connected to your video distribution system. 2) I suspect that you're not going to have enough inputs on your video switch to allow connecting all of the Rokus and the BluRay(s?) you want added. This is an assumption, but it seems likely. 'Some Roku players and a BluRay player' is at least 3 devices, that's nearly half of the possible available sources on an 8x4 switch in and by itself. 3) Your audio distribution assuming the info from your dealer is accurate is full - similar to 2), there is just no room to connect the devices to the speakers. Now, an HDFury could overcome 1) quite well, though at their own cost - indeed those HDFury units will cost more than the devices your wanting to connect. Not the end of the world if you want A Roku connected - but it adds up fast if you want more. It can add up so fast that indeed it may make more sense financially right NOW to upgrade to HDMI distribution, even disregarding the fact that more and more devices are dropping the Componenet connection (Some Sat or Cable boxes also no longer have the option).However that leaves the other two issues unresolved. Even if point 2) is false, point 3) remains - you still cannot listen to the Roku over the speakers. Altenatively the Rokus could be direct connect to the TV with audio being fed back down to the rack, but that depends on available wires, and it still doesn't solve point 3) as there still is nowhere to connect the audio to. I'm rather surprised (and in a bad way) that this hasn't been communicated beforehand properly to you and that the Rkus just got installed locally without making you aware of all this before hand - but the reality remains that you're stuck between a rock and a hard place.You want to add devices, but you have an outdated distribution system (and trust me, I wish the whole HDMI thing never happened - but that's a whole different discussion) that can't handle the current generation of devices very well - and that's only going to get worse. An HDFury can 'patch' an older system for a bit, but I don't advise them. Not because they don't work (because they very much do!), but because you're patching a ship that'll sink anyway. And those patches will be, sooner or a little less soon, more expensive than the new ship - a ship you'll have to get on a one point or another anyway, at which point those expensive HDFurys become useless. If it was adding one single Roku - it may be a diferent matter. But at, say, 4 devices, you're looking at something like a grand in devices, to add less than 400 dollar worth of sources. Either change to HDMI distribution (and likely a bigger video switch, plus add an audio matrix switch to overcome the full audio distribution) or accept the way it was setup (but scold your dealer for the complete lack of communication). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 You could also go shopping for the older Roku that do have component out. The 2100 for example. Maybe also find a BD with component on eBay thought as a mechanical device you have more reliability concerns there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winestem Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Thank you, CYKNIGHT and others for your feedback. I think what hit home loudest and clearest was scolding my dealer for the complete lack of communication. That has been the hallmark from the beginning. In the past 6 years I have never ever had a C4 dealer I could depend on. Everything always seems seat-of-the-pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 You could also go shopping for the older Roku that do have component out. The 2100 for example.Maybe also find a BD with component on eBay thought as a mechanical device you have more reliability concerns thereThe problem of potential lack of video inputs, and known lack of audio inputs aren't fixed with this though. I'm sorry to hear and say it - but there is a clear communication problem in this scenario between the dealer and the end-user, or the situation wouldn't have been where it's at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 ... In the past 6 years...Wait, you installed your infratructure (Borrego and RG6 coax) 6 years ago?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winestem Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 5 years ago? I don't know exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Affordable HDMI matrix switchers were just popping-up back then. Granted, it was tail-end of a phase where installers were running mass amounts of coax but some still believed component would be around for awhile. I think you got a decent ride for the money. It's probably time to re-invest in HDMI-over-Ethernet switchgear. I'm not assuming anything about the dealer/HO line of communication but the response sounds typical. What's with the analog L-R comment? What the hell else would blow throughout the house? You do 5.1/7.1/9.1 from a suitable AVR- not a Control4 amp. Shesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 What's with the analog L-R comment? What the hell else would blow throughout the house? You do 5.1/7.1/9.1 from a suitable AVR- not a Control4 amp. Shesh! LOL. You'd be surprised - I've done a system with a 4Zone matrix amp for outdoor, and 10 receviers for a mix of 3.1 to 9.2 surround zones indoors.But yeah, seems a bit of a loose flying comment doesn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 ^I actually would believe it. There's all kinds out there. I need to snap out of it and realize that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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