zaphod Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Ok, I'll bite - why? Doesn't the quality, or lack thereof, come from the D/A conversion? Shouldn't the HDMI connection give you the exact pattern of 1s and 0s that were recorded and mastered in the studio? Don't you want the D/A conversion to happen at the device with the best quality D/A converter? Back when CDs first came I remember seeing super high end systems in things like Ultra High Fidelity magazine that would use a digital out from the CD player connected to a D/A device costing thousands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 2 hours ago, zaphod said: Ok, I'll bite Why did you have to bite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 7 hours ago, zaphod said: Ok, I'll bite - why? Doesn't the quality, or lack thereof, come from the D/A conversion? Shouldn't the HDMI connection give you the exact pattern of 1s and 0s that were recorded and mastered in the studio? Don't you want the D/A conversion to happen at the device with the best quality D/A converter? Back when CDs first came I remember seeing super high end systems in things like Ultra High Fidelity magazine that would use a digital out from the CD player connected to a D/A device costing thousands. Well yes it depends on the D/A convertor for sure. So yes Most gear discussed around here as music sources (Sonos/Heos/C4 controller/Kodi box/whatever) have crap D/A convertors... The source has to be converted to analog somewhere in the chain. All I'm saying is if you can convert it using some sort of reasonable DAC early (say via the Oppo 205) then do it there rather than pass it further down the chain via HDMI. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 I just want to throw this out there. The Just Add Power system is AMAZING. I’ve been sidelined on HDMI distribution due to all the issues I’ve heard of people having. This functions FLAWLESSLY, exactly like my component distribution system did. I used existing CAT5e runs (not shielded and running through a patch panel) and it just works perfect. BlackWire Designs did all the setup and so it was literally plug and play. And how cool is it that I effectively have a 7 input 4 output matrix (it’s actually 7:3 but the 4th is receiving local HDMI pass thru)? Soon I’ll likely add a 5th, but LOVE having that flexibility. I’d highly recommend it for anyone looking at HDMI distribution. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 @ILoveC4 - What switch did you use? Did you get a separate managed switch just for the distribution. I always wondered why matrix switches are usually symmetric. With JAP I guess that isn't the case as you get what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 He is probably running either a luxul or cisco managed switch. Yes the switch ports can be configured as TX, RX or control LAN so you are not confined to a specific in/out layout as long as you have enough total ports on the managed switch for everything you need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Symmetric is usually just a matter of available space, or because they use 'blades' that have one in one out. There's other options out there though, and yes JAP or similar systems are completely modular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 And I guess you use a dedicated switch to do this which is not part of your regular LAN, correct? So even for a large home about a 20-24 port switch is plenty - so something like the Cisco SG 300-20 would work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Normally speaking, yes it'll be a dedicated switch. Extremely large setups or those requiring specialty setups may have it all be part of the main network to one degree to another. Assuming you use the JAP driver (vs Blackwire's own for Cisco) you need to remmeber that you need one port on top of your in/out total. But yes any SG300 series should work, I've use either the 10 or maybe even the 8 port in one location. One thing to always remember is that if you're using the JAP driver, you CANNOT go around swapping baluns/ports at random due to how the pathing gets done. (ie to test of a device or cable is bad - not a major concern, but something to keep in mind). Changes generally require a full re-do of the switch setup (JAP has a utility to make this fairly simple and painless, if sometimes slow, but it does require 'some doing' as you need to connect a computer over network and serial). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 49 minutes ago, zaphod said: And I guess you use a dedicated switch to do this which is not part of your regular LAN, correct? So even for a large home about a 20-24 port switch is plenty - so something like the Cisco SG 300-20 would work? Yes dedicated switch. Also a large home or a medium c4 system would eat a 24 port switch for breakfast and spit it right out. Just LAN cabling within the rack(s) would likely exceed that. Mine being 22+ in the main rack before touch panels, tv's, APs, local devices in rooms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I mean 24 just for the JAP system. I have a 24 port switch and have had to add a second one. I also have 5 or 8 port switches all over the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 [mention=124065]ILoveC4[/mention] - What switch did you use? Did you get a separate managed switch just for the distribution. I always wondered why matrix switches are usually symmetric. With JAP I guess that isn't the case as you get what you want.I did. I bought a Luxul...I believe the model is 2624p but I could be wrong. My existing switch was FULL, so this gave me some additional headroom as I can use the ports that JAP isn’t using for anything. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Any reason why you went with the Luxul rather than the Cisco? Anyone try a Ubiquiti Unifi managed switch for this purpose? I like that line and use them for my router and WAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Any reason why you went with the Luxul rather than the Cisco? Anyone try a Ubiquiti Unifi managed switch for this purpose? I like that line and use them for my router and WAP.Because my other switch is Luxul so it matches in the rack (ports on the back so they’re mounted in the front) and because it came recommended. It was spendy though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Actually the Luxul switches are FANTASTIC for JAP, arguably more solid than the Ciscos (for that specific purpose). And no, you cannot just ANY managed switch for it - drivers exist only for Cisco and Luxul. (exact models etc are freely available on JAP's website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Another big factor for me in choosing to buy Luxul gear (both initially and now) is that they are a local company, headquartered close to my home. I’ll support a local company like that over a company like Cisco any time it makes sense. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesseasmith Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 On 11/22/2017 at 8:47 AM, zaphod said: Has anyone done a write-up on the pros and cons of centralized sources vs distributed sources? I have never understood why having it centralized with a matrix switch is so much better, maybe I am missing something. With centralized, you only pay for a small number of sources. The more display devices you have, the more money it saves you. Also, independent cable/satellite boxes do not sync between each other, so if you have several TV's in an area close to each other, or want to play TV sound in multiple rooms, you will get echos with separate boxes. As several others have mentioned, XBOX does NOT do well when the game system is not in the same room as you. The wireless controllers are awful at a distance. Most video distribution systems add delay that can make gaming problematic. We typically install a gaming system in a dedicated area, separate from the video distribution solutions. Even if you hardwire the controllers with USB, long USB runs can also add a slight delay to the experience, making it nearly impossible to game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I usually find xbox 360 and one have no real issue 30-50ft so I have my Xbox in the family room shared between family room, 2nd floor kids room, and basement theater but placement is important since there isn't a solution for extending range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 I usually find xbox 360 and one have no real issue 30-50ft so I have my Xbox in the family room shared between family room, 2nd floor kids room, and basement theater but placement is important since there isn't a solution for extending rangeIs the 22-47ms delay caused by JAP noticeable?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I use the JAP stuff for items that can be used anywhere in the house. I use a monoprice switch for the Xbox one, ps4 and a raspberry pi running RetroPie. Zero issues 1080p surprisingly for 3 years https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5704&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgZTRBRDmARIsAJvVWAv-Hxc8MKlGPA-rRaGIIoMugEd-ZeVIhuyCnqExvK_m1g_m9lLmaTQaAn6zEALw_wcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabwolf Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 I'd go with the Atlona https://bzbexpress.com/AT-UHD-PRO3-66M/4K-UHD-Dual-Distance-6x6-HDMI-to-HDBaseT-Matrix-Switcher-with-PoE-by-Atlona.html With a 10-year warranty, you'll feel confident with this device. You can probably get these guys to mark down the price by 30%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 32 minutes ago, dabwolf said: I'd go with the Atlona https://bzbexpress.com/AT-UHD-PRO3-66M/4K-UHD-Dual-Distance-6x6-HDMI-to-HDBaseT-Matrix-Switcher-with-PoE-by-Atlona.html With a 10-year warranty, you'll feel confident with this device. You can probably get these guys to mark down the price by 30%. Sure, 10 years of warranty. 'Course it not working isn't covered by warranty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 10 year warranty is good because they die often. Haven't played much with the newest ones but previous gen had many issues with the matrices and endpoints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I'd go with JAP in a heartbeat if it was cost effective to set up here (it's not and very expensive due to the price of third party distribution) but it's nice to hear from you LoveC4 ol son that it is an awesome product which I am totally sure it is! Cheaper for me to just double up my 2x 4KApple TV, 2 x 4 Blu Ray and 2x 4KSTB's and Kodi boxes which total a bit over just 1.5K for the lot of sources..So wish JAP was cheaper but that is the cold hard reality of the market place of Video distribution here I am afraid. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 59 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: I'd go with JAP in a heartbeat if it was cost effective to set up here (it's not and very expensive due to the price of third party distribution) but it's nice to hear from you LoveC4 ol son that it is an awesome product which I am totally sure it is! Cheaper for me to just double up my 2x 4KApple TV, 2 x 4 Blu Ray and 2x 4KSTB's and Kodi boxes which total a bit over just 1.5K for the lot of sources..So wish JAP was cheaper but that is the cold hard reality of the market place of Video distribution here I am afraid. W Video storm has bring your own hardware. Cheaper to deploy than JAP. Not sure where you live and what hardware is available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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