Multi room audio with Shairbridge

[timbooo]

I think I have got my head around Shairbridge. Am I right in thinking that as long as there are enough audio routes connected physically and of course in composer (i.e. an EA-5 with all four routes connected to the house matrix) then Shairbridge just "finds" a channel to use automatically, and does all the legwork?

My customer wants to use his Apple music all around the house. He suggested Sonos, I fear that will be too complicated and won't work well. If there are, let's say, 8 rooms in the house then could I add an EA-3 to the rack and connect up all the possible audio paths (including the HDMIs which go through a Leaf matrix and audio breaks out to the matrix)? Would that give 8 individual paths, meaning that in the unlikely case that someone streamed to all 8 rooms at once then the Shairbridge system would be able to complete all the routes?

Are there any delays between the analogue stereo outs, the digital audio outs (which I would have to put through a DAC then into the matrix) and the HDMI (which as mentioned is going into an A/V matrix and audio passed to the audio matrix)?

 

 

The matrix is a C4 16 way, the stereo outputs go into "dumb" C4 amps which power the speakers in each room. There is one specific "cinema room" with it's own AVR, which also has a stereo feed from the audio matrix.

[timbooo]

Just now, South Africa C4 user said:

I've got 14 (or so) zones in my house but could not see a case where we ever use more than 3 or 4 different Shairbridge streams... It is just impractical (unless it is a really massive house - and then you will probably have many more zones - some zones will be too close to others to use independently). Also, unless it is  huge family, you are unlikely to need so many unique streams. 

I am told (by my dealer) that I am set up for 9 unique streams. I have tested 5 but never used more than 3 in real life. I have used all 14 zones on 1 stream (Christmas music and it worked great!). 

Shairbridge really is fantastic. 

 

That's a great example to know about, thanks so much. Perhaps we'll get away with just the EA-5 and the WMB that's already in the rack as a bonus 6th stream.

Any idea how you get to your total 9 streams? EA-5 + EA-3 + EA-1?

 

I am still a a bit worried about whether it will really route the same stream rather than starting new ones. The intention is to do this all from inside the music APPs on the phone i.e. from iTunes or Music or whatever it's called now, choosing to airplay to extra rooms, not by "joining" zones in C4 from a C4 user interface. Do you do it from the music app or from C4? If you do it from the music app or spotify app then I really will stop worrying haha

[timbooo]

11 minutes ago, South Africa C4 user said:

 

@timbooo You can set up multiple instances of Shairbridge in your project. Each instance can be single zone or multiple zone. When you airplay to am instance of Shairbridge this uses up one of your available streams.  Using my house as an example, I have 9 available streams, 14 or so zones and 10 or 12 instances of Shairbridge installed. Examples of how I have set up my Shairbridge instances include

Downstairs - 3 zones (dining room, lounge and kitchen)

Outides - 2 zones (patio and jacuzzi)

Jacuzzi - 1 zone (jacuzzi only)

Patio - 1 zone (patio only)

Main bedroom suite - 2 zones (bedroom and bathroom)

Various bedrooms - 1 zone each

Balcony - 1 zone

Upstairs (all bedrooms) - never used!

Whole house (all 14 or so zones)

Etc.

Theoretically, I can steam different music from different devices to any 9 of these instances (5 in your case). Where an instance has multiple zones set up, control4 joins the zones for you without the user doing anything. Obviously, one cannot airplay 2 different streams to overlapping instances so in my example, I cannot stream one song to outside and another to jacuzzi - I don't even know why would happen if I did!

That's great, thanks, I think I will do something very similar. Strangely it turns out it is similar to setting up Chromecast Audio which is what I have in my personal (read: low budget) home setup. I wish my home setup had a "jacuzzi" zone....

I think I will make a separate instance for every room and then a few extra group instances.

 

It would be nice if the Shairbridge driver was capable of working out joining by itself, so that the customer experience would be a bit more slick i.e. add rooms one at a time from within iTunes / Apple Music and the driver figures out it's the same stream so combines. Wishlist!

[South Africa C4 user]

@zaphod Your device needs to stay on the LAN for Shairbridge to work. I.e. your option 1 app!ies. 

@timbooo You can set up multiple instances of Shairbridge in your project. Each instance can be single zone or multiple zone. When you airplay to am instance of Shairbridge this uses up one of your available streams.  Using my house as an example, I have 9 available streams, 14 or so zones and 10 or 12 instances of Shairbridge installed. Examples of how I have set up my Shairbridge instances include

Downstairs - 3 zones (dining room, lounge and kitchen)

Outides - 2 zones (patio and jacuzzi)

Jacuzzi - 1 zone (jacuzzi only)

Patio - 1 zone (patio only)

Main bedroom suite - 2 zones (bedroom and bathroom)

Various bedrooms - 1 zone each

Balcony - 1 zone

Upstairs (all bedrooms) - never used!

Whole house (all 14 or so zones)

Etc.

Theoretically, I can steam different music from different devices to any 9 of these instances (5 in your case). Where an instance has multiple zones set up, control4 joins the zones for you without the user doing anything. Obviously, one cannot airplay 2 different streams to overlapping instances so in my example, I cannot stream one song to outside and another to jacuzzi - I don't even know why would happen if I did!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zaphod]

Ok thanks Mitch.  So I guess I should continue using a fixed device, rather than a mobile device, to initiate Shairbridge playback.

[msgreenf]

7 minutes ago, zaphod said:

Sure - what is the correct verb?  Airplay?

If you are using Apple AIrplay, then yes. iF you are using Google Cast,, then cast

[zaphod]

Sure - what is the correct verb?  Airplay?

[msgreenf]

with casting (aka Google cast) the endpoint device gets the URL and plays the media directly

with airplay, the apple device is playing the media to the remote device

[msgreenf]

2 minutes ago, zaphod said:

When you "cast" music from your phone to Shairbridge does the signal go like this:

(1) Apple Music Server (Cloud) -> Phone -> C4 Controller -> Audio Endpoint , or like this:

 (2) Apple Music Server (Cloud) -> C4 Controller -> Audio Endpoint 

In other words, does your phone have to stay on the LAN to keep the music playing?  Or does using Shairbridge take your phone out of the equation and send the digital stream from the cloud directly to your controller?

I have been assuming that it is (1) so I have been trying to use a PC to cast music to Shairbridge (using iTunes on Windows) as it won't leave the LAN, unlike my phone as it may drop off the Wifi if it switches WAPs or if I Ieave the house.  I can then use the Apple Remote app on my phone/watch or the PC  to control playback.

 

don't use the word cast.  Airplay is not cast.  Cast is very different tech then airplay.

[zaphod]

When you "cast" music from your phone to Shairbridge does the signal go like this:

(1) Apple Music Server (Cloud) -> Phone -> C4 Controller -> Audio Endpoint , or like this:

 (2) Apple Music Server (Cloud) -> C4 Controller -> Audio Endpoint 

In other words, does your phone have to stay on the LAN to keep the music playing?  Or does using Shairbridge take your phone out of the equation and send the digital stream from the cloud directly to your controller?

I have been assuming that it is (1) so I have been trying to use a PC to cast music to Shairbridge (using iTunes on Windows) as it won't leave the LAN, unlike my phone as it may drop off the Wifi if it switches WAPs or if I Ieave the house.  I can then use the Apple Remote app on my phone/watch or the PC  to control playback.

 

[timbooo]

Ok thanks that's disappointing but it's what I expected.

I think I will experiment with having a Shairbridge set up for multiple automatic play rooms, to see if that just uses one stream. So I could have a Shairbridge called "Ground Floor Airplay" set to play in all those rooms. In my head it should work. A bit like Chromecast audio zones..

Thanks to everyone for your input, very helpful. And to anyone who cares to add anything more!

[msgreenf]

 
That's a great example to know about, thanks so much. Perhaps we'll get away with just the EA-5 and the WMB that's already in the rack as a bonus 6th stream.
Any idea how you get to your total 9 streams? EA-5 + EA-3 + EA-1?
 
I am still a a bit worried about whether it will really route the same stream rather than starting new ones. The intention is to do this all from inside the music APPs on the phone i.e. from iTunes or Music or whatever it's called now, choosing to airplay to extra rooms, not by "joining" zones in C4 from a C4 user interface. Do you do it from the music app or from C4? If you do it from the music app or spotify app then I really will stop worrying haha

Air play from airplay to multiple rooms will consume multi streams. Joining in control4 won't

Sent from my BBB100-1 using Tapatalk

[South Africa C4 user]

I've got 14 (or so) zones in my house but could not see a case where we ever use more than 3 or 4 different Shairbridge streams... It is just impractical (unless it is a really massive house - and then you will probably have many more zones - some zones will be too close to others to use independently). Also, unless it is  huge family, you are unlikely to need so many unique streams. 

I am told (by my dealer) that I am set up for 9 unique streams. I have tested 5 but never used more than 3 in real life. I have used all 14 zones on 1 stream (Christmas music and it worked great!). 

Shairbridge really is fantastic. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[msgreenf]

yes, its another stream

 

yes that would not add another stream

[timbooo]

Ok so I suppose I mean another audio stream. Would that be the correct terminology? I need one source/stream for every active airplay session, correct?

Actually that brings another question to my head. What happens if someone is airplays their iTunes to the kitchen, then adds the living room to play the same stuff from their phone (i.e. ticks an extra room). Presumably that doesn't actually need another output from the EA-5 (or wherever) but does the driver just open a new route anyway?

In theory the matrix could just route the same connection to two rooms but that would require a bit of intelligence in the system.

I don't know how clever Shairbridge is or isn't.

[msgreenf]

Just now, timbooo said:

Thanks. Am I right in thinking that the EA controllers and the (dead in the water) WMB are the only devices that can 'create'/'be' additional audio zones?

well hold on - a WMB is not an additional audio zone.  It's a source. not an output

[timbooo]

Just now, msgreenf said:

yes they can

Thanks. Am I right in thinking that the EA controllers and the (dead in the water) WMB are the only devices that can 'create'/'be' additional audio zones?

[msgreenf]

yes they can

[timbooo]

Just one extra thing, can the wireless music bridge happily coexist in this setup? I happen to have two lying around, that would take care of two zones. I know they're discontinued but are they still supported?

[timbooo]

Yes, great, that's as I understood and hoped. Thank you. I think my misunderstanding was that every stream needs an audio route from a processor to whichever amplifier but now it seems obvious, it has to come from somewhere right!?

It seems weird just in terms of terminology that to get extra audio zones I need another "controller".

So anyway if I wanted to get 12 audio zones I would need two EA5s and and EA3. Or the existing EA5 plus 4 EA3s... maybe I could double up a pair of zones and drop to 1+3.

Annoyingly there are EA1s scattered all around the house. Theoretically could I split the audio out of the HDMI and run digital audio back over a single coax to the rack, not sure if I'd have distance issues?

I suppose it's less expensive than buying 12 Sonos Connects...!  

 

 

Do you know what happens if the system runs out of audio paths. Let's say there's just an EA5, all 5 audio paths made. An iPhone is streaming to 5 zones. The user then adds one more. Does it fail, or does the first one cut out, or what? If the client baulks at the cost of the extra zones I could tell him what happens if he doesn't cover for the whole house, he may be ok with it.

Thanks. I did go to a training session on Shairbridge but it was too long ago and I never got around to using it.

[zaphod]

I think the way it works is you want a Shairbridge instance for each audio endpoint.  So when you use your phone to play from Apple Music (or Spotify or whatever) to Shairbridge-Kitchen and you have the driver set to automatically turn on then it will immediately turn everything on in the Kitchen without doing anything in C4 - C4 sees that the audio zone has gone live and automatically turns on audio for the Kitchen Room and shows that the room is listening to music on Navigator screens.  So there is no need to use the C4 app or touch screen to play music - everything is initiated from within the playback app on your phone, or iTunes/Spotify on your PC/Mac.  And you don't even need a central distribution to do this - a  local C4 controller connected to a local amp will work as C4 will turn everything on automatically, and turn it off when it stops.