DS2-Mini: "Poor Connection"

[Don Cohen]

I have a DS2-Mini at my front door, using POE, installed several months ago. This was part of a new Control4 retrofit installation at my home, which included an Araknis Router and Switches. Excellent signal strength, WiFi, etc., throughout the house.

When using the Intercom Anywhere app on my Android Phone to connect to the DS2-Mini, either with a ring of the door bell, or using the intercom function, I get this error message off and on, throughout the session:

"Poor Communication. Continuing with Audio. Video will return when the connection improves."

When I connect with the T3, I do occasionally see the same message, only much, much less frequently.

Trouble-shooting done so far includes a session with Control4 Tech Support, including using TeamViewer to give them direct access, to check settings, configuration, etc.  Nothing was found to explain this error message. They suspected a possible hardware issue with the DS2-Mini itself, or in the physical connections.

Before going through the hassle of uninstalling it, reconnecting it, possible replacement, etc., I want to be as sure as possible that this would fix it.  So I spent a little time this morning, looking at the Call Stats on the App, and then on the T3, and found something interesting, in the 'Video Download Bandwidth' parameter, which seems to poll between 1 and 2 times/second:

• On the Intercom Anywhere App, the real-time readout fluctuated very widely and wildly, from as low as 3.6 kbps to 2000 kbps.
• On the T3, the range was much more stable and narrower: between 100 kbps and 500 kbps

I would guess that this observation has significance, but don't know what would account for it, nor how it could be addressed. The actual speeds are lower than I might have guessed, although the feed is only 640x480 resolution.  My phone is on the 5 Ghz band, with 200 down and 20 up, and no other connection issues are evident with other applications.

Could some Router setting account for this? Something else?  Most likely the mini itselfl?

Any ideas appreciated. It would be nice to fix this without having to replace or rewire the mini itself.

Thanks.

[Don Cohen]

Just bumping since no replies so far.

This is a somewhat obscure issue, with obscure data, but perhaps somebody here might have some insight.

And to broaden my concern about the possibility of this being a hardware issue, here are 2 additional data points:

1.  Erratic brightness at times during night mode: Night Mode Video (uploaded mp4's don't seem to play, so this links to the video in my Drive account)

2.  Poor Night Mode picture quality. This photo shows my 2 Luma cameras at the top, and my DS2-Mini at the bottom left. No lights are on for the Luma Cameras:

[Don Cohen]

I'm going to replace my current DS2-Mini, with the working assumption is that the problems documented above are a result of some physical defect in the hardware.

I don't want to change any of the programming, or anything else in the project, so:

What do I need to do within Control4 once I physically reconnect the new DS2-Mini?  I'll have to have the Project recognize the device, but is there a way to avoid doing all the binding and programming, as if this were a completely new device?  Any way to just have to the new Device occupy the same 'slot' of binding and programming that the current one does?

Thanks.

[South Africa C4 user]

20 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

I'm going to replace my current DS2-Mini, with the working assumption is that the problems documented above are a result of some physical defect in the hardware.

I don't want to change any of the programming, or anything else in the project, so:

What do I need to do within Control4 once I physically reconnect the new DS2-Mini?  I'll have to have the Project recognize the device, but is there a way to avoid doing all the binding and programming, as if this were a completely new device?  Any way to just have to the new Device occupy the same 'slot' of binding and programming that the current one does?

Thanks.

Yes, a dealer should be able to do this for you (very easily) with Composer Pro

[Don Cohen]

10 minutes ago, South Africa C4 user said:

Yes, a dealer should be able to do this for you (very easily) with Composer Pro

Thanks for the reply.

In this case, I am working for the Dealer, primarily in Sales, but since we're using my Home as a Showroom for my area, I am also learning/using Composer Pro.  So I will be the one doing this, as I'd prefer to learn on my own, and not have to run to our tech guys every time I want to change something.

I've learned quite a bit in the past few months, tweaking programming in my complicated Home Theater, physically adding the wiring and programming to control our Garage Doors, upgrading to 3.1, adding Google Assistant and Alexa Voice Scenes, etc.  But I still have a lot to learn.  I'll search online to find many solutions, have taken the Associate Installer program through Control4, and I read the various threads, problems, and solutions here, which has been quite helpful.

So, given that I'll be making the swap myself, what would the process be?

[South Africa C4 user]

I’m not a dealer so am not the best person to give you advice but AFAIK, essentially you leave the driver in the project and identify (connect) it to the new Door Station... I am not sure whether this is via an IP address or identifying it in connections (I think Pro) gives onscreen instructions for what buttons to press when identifying a device under Conmections.

As long as you leave the driver in place and don’t delete it, all programming should remain.

[Don Cohen]

That's what I'm thinking, but I like to be prepared, and make sure I understand what I'm supposed to do, and how I'm supposed to do it.

The Device does have an IP address, and looking at the documentation, it seems I would just hit the Dial button 4x to get it recognized by Composer Pro.

So as you say, it should most likely be a quick process, but first time doing anything often triggers mistakes and a learning curve.  I'm just trying to get ahead of the curve here!

[South Africa C4 user]

Good luck

[ILoveC4]

Sounds like you know what to do. Hopefully this fixes the problem. 

[Matt Lowe]

On 10/27/2019 at 4:01 AM, Don Cohen said:

Just bumping since no replies so far.

This is a somewhat obscure issue, with obscure data, but perhaps somebody here might have some insight.

And to broaden my concern about the possibility of this being a hardware issue, here are 2 additional data points:

1.  Erratic brightness at times during night mode: Night Mode Video (uploaded mp4's don't seem to play, so this links to the video in my Drive account)

2.  Poor Night Mode picture quality. This photo shows my 2 Luma cameras at the top, and my DS2-Mini at the bottom left. No lights are on for the Luma Cameras:

This something a certified technician would need to call Control4 tech support so they can properly troubleshoot this device. there are various settings that can be changed. Also how the device is connected and how you are viewing the device is a big part in the quality of video that you can get. also you can see some stream analytics by double tapping the name while in the intercom app. Also pairing of this device is done via SDDP and no you will not need to redo programming with a replacement, but i doubt if one may be needed.

[Don Cohen]

23 minutes ago, Matt Lowe said:

This something a certified technician would need to call Control4 tech support so they can properly troubleshoot this device. there are various settings that can be changed. Also how the device is connected and how you are viewing the device is a big part in the quality of video that you can get. also you can see some stream analytics by double tapping the name while in the intercom app. Also pairing of this device is done via SDDP and no you will not need to redo programming with a replacement, but i doubt if one may be needed.

Thanks for the reply, Matt.

I did do an extended chat session with Control4 support, where they bumped it up a level, and they then did a Team Viewer session to directly look at a variety of configurations, settings, restarts, etc.  I have also played around with the various settings available within the DS2-Mini web interface.  But they don't seem to impact what is demonstrated in that photo.

It is connected by POE, likely no more than 30-40 feet in length, to an Araknis switch.  I am aware of the different resolution/compression option for the video, but this seems to be different from those, again illustrated by the photo I posted.  Perhaps this is the best the DS2-Mini can do in Night Mode, but I hope not, considering how drastically better the Luma cameras are.

I have looked at the stream analytics, sharing them with Control4 as well, and am attaching one to this post.

So I've tried to be rigorous in trouble-shooting, and nobody seems to be able to come up with any changes other than trying a new DS2-Mini.  I'm hoping that will resolve these issues.  But I'm certainly open to any other suggestions, and appreciate your reply.

[JSTRONG]

Did you follow the c4 kB for router and switch settings ? 

[Don Cohen]

3 hours ago, Cartnj said:

Did you follow the c4 kB for router and switch settings ? 

It was originally set up by the Technicians from my Company (since I was completely ignorant at that time, having just started working for them a couple of months before), so I assume they did.  And Control4 Tech had full access to my system via TeamViewer, and would think they would have verified this.

That said, I haven't looked into this myself, and your suggestion is a good one.  I found this article - is this the one you're referencing, or is it a different one?

I didn't find all the settings referred to in that article, in the Araknis Router I have, but what I found is configured as per that article, with one exception.  The Article recommends enabling "Multicast" if applicable.  I find "Multicast Passthrough" as an option on my Router, but don't know if that's the exact same thing.  It is currently disabled.

Any other specific things to check?

[JSTRONG]

Yes check out 643 and 1186

I think the c4 tech won’t login to your araknis gear but the snap techs will to verify your settings 

 

[Don Cohen]

11 hours ago, Cartnj said:

Yes check out 643 and 1186

I think the c4 tech won’t login to your araknis gear but the snap techs will to verify your settings 

 

Will do.  Thanks.

[JAJUTI]

Hi,

did you manage to solve the issue? I have the exact same one, DS2 connected through POE and regularly getting a "poor connection" message. The quality of the picture is really bad, often there are black marks/missing spots all over it and also, I can't get the DS2 to call my phone through intercom anywhere...I'm seriously thinking of just scrapping everything and buying ring doorbell

Thanks, any advice would be much appreciated:)!

J.

[Don Cohen]

Unfortunately, I haven't solved it, and just live with it.

In terms of trouble-shooting, I did get a new replacement DS2-Mini, as recommended by some of the support people, but this didn't really change anything.  I replaced the Ethernet Connector at the DS2-Mini end, where there was a significant bend present to get the device mounted, but it didn't help either. I've tried different ports on the Router as well.

I did remove the original DS2-Mini, brought it inside, and used a shorter, separate cable to connect it to the Araknis Router, and at least for the time I watched it, the Poor Connection error didn't reappear. But since this can be sporadic, I can't be certain that this fully fixed it.

I have another thread on the Poor Quality of Night Mode, which might be of interest.

Bottom line for me is that I suspect there is an issue with the Ethernet Cable itself, somewhere along the 40-50 foot or so run.  As suggested in that other thread, I could buy some tools to check the existing cable, and may yet do that.  Replacing it (accessed through the crawlspace) is another option which I haven't yet pursued.  We don't get rings to our front door (eta: that often), and so from a practical standpoint, it is more of an annoyance and disappointment, and it has worked well enough when it was needed.

Daytime picture quality on mine is fine - it's just the Night Mode which is underwhelming.  Are the "black marks/missing spots all over it" you report during day mode?

The DS2 Intercom function works fine with my phone and my wife's phone (other than the sporadic "Poor Connection" error message).  If yours isn't, two possibilities come to mind: an error or missing element in programming the Intercom function (Dealer side in Composer Pro - connections and such), or the lack of a 4Sight License (which is required for this to work with Intercom Anywhere).

Hope this helps some, or at least identify some areas to explore to find a solution.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Don Cohen
clarity

[JAJUTI]

Hi

 

Thanks for the answer, sorry to hear you are still having problems with the DS:(.

As for picture quality, its bad, low res and as said, with black marks if I'm calling the DS from my phone. If I'm calling it from touchscreen its usually without black spots (but still low res).

Picture on the phone:

Picture on the touchscreen:

 

AS for intercom function, I have the 4Sight license (otherwise I believe I wouldn't be even able to call the DS from my phone) so I guess its something with the programming? Below is the screen from composer and I guess I should be able to choose my phone in the intercom section? Or should I somehow create a group with my phone in it (I've tried doing that through touchscreen but I guess I'm not doing it right)?

[Don Cohen]

That screen capture with the black splotches is really strange - I've never seen anything like that on mine.  Other than a possible hardware problem, or bandwidth issues, I don't have a clue what would cause that.

As for programming for the Intercom, I'm still pretty much a novice myself, with only about 5 months or so since my system was installed.  The Dealer I work for did the initial setup, and when I look through it, I don't see any explicit programming as such to activate the Intercom associated with pressing the DS2 call button.  It does trigger an announcement, and I added programming to send a snapshot email, but there's nothing there about Intercom.

I do see reference to my email address, and my wife's, in the Communications Agent, under the Advanced Tab.  But bottom line, I'm not seeing exactly where the Intercom function is otherwise defined - perhaps it occurs when the App is installed.  But I don't see programming to initiate a call, as your screen capture shows.  I'm not saying what you have is wrong, just that I don't see corresponding programming in mine.

You might need to start a post on that specific topic to get the attention of the more experienced guys here, who should be able to address this pretty easily.

[ILoveC4]

5 hours ago, JAJUTI said:

Hi

 

Thanks for the answer, sorry to hear you are still having problems with the DS:(.

As for picture quality, its bad, low res and as said, with black marks if I'm calling the DS from my phone. If I'm calling it from touchscreen its usually without black spots (but still low res).

Picture on the phone:

Picture on the touchscreen:

 

AS for intercom function, I have the 4Sight license (otherwise I believe I wouldn't be even able to call the DS from my phone) so I guess its something with the programming? Below is the screen from composer and I guess I should be able to choose my phone in the intercom section? Or should I somehow create a group with my phone in it (I've tried doing that through touchscreen but I guess I'm not doing it right)?

Looks like interference to me. Is it running parallel to any high voltage? Did you use shielded cable?

[JAJUTI]

7 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

That screen capture with the black splotches is really strange - I've never seen anything like that on mine.  Other than a possible hardware problem, or bandwidth issues, I don't have a clue what would cause that.

As for programming for the Intercom, I'm still pretty much a novice myself, with only about 5 months or so since my system was installed.  The Dealer I work for did the initial setup, and when I look through it, I don't see any explicit programming as such to activate the Intercom associated with pressing the DS2 call button.  It does trigger an announcement, and I added programming to send a snapshot email, but there's nothing there about Intercom.

I do see reference to my email address, and my wife's, in the Communications Agent, under the Advanced Tab.  But bottom line, I'm not seeing exactly where the Intercom function is otherwise defined - perhaps it occurs when the App is installed.  But I don't see programming to initiate a call, as your screen capture shows.  I'm not saying what you have is wrong, just that I don't see corresponding programming in mine.

You might need to start a post on that specific topic to get the attention of the more experienced guys here, who should be able to address this pretty easily.

Thanks for answers...I did start a post but sadly no one answered me

[JAJUTI]

2 hours ago, ILoveC4 said:

Looks like interference to me. Is it running parallel to any high voltage? Did you use shielded cable?

To be honest IDK, this was installed by the C4 dealer. The most I can do is to unmount the doorbell (guess I need a torax screwdriver?) and test the cable. 

This still doesnt explain why the picture is acceptable when using the touchscreen. Bandwith, more specifically upload speed could be the reason (since I'm looking at the video from the phone) but I'm on fiber so I find it really hard to believe...

Also, no one knows if there is an actual program command that triggers intercom call to the phone or should intercom anywhere do that automatically?

[Don Cohen]

5 hours ago, JAJUTI said:

Thanks for answers...I did start a post but sadly no one answered me

Sometimes I've had to bump a post to get some additional attention, and this has sometimes yielded results.

In my case, unmounting my surface mount DS2-Mini only required the fine Allen wrench to get the cover off, and regular screwdrivers to remove from the mount.  If you have the tools, you could at least check the status of your ethernet cable.

You didn't indicate when your Dealer set this up, but if basic functionality like Intercom wasn't set up properly, with some glitch in the Video Quality, it would seem that they would be obliged to fix it, with no additional expense.  If that's not an option for whatever reason, finding a new Dealer, or even using one of the Online guys here who can fix things remotely, might be worth exploring.

[JAJUTI]

On 12/31/2019 at 12:49 PM, Don Cohen said:

Sometimes I've had to bump a post to get some additional attention, and this has sometimes yielded results.

In my case, unmounting my surface mount DS2-Mini only required the fine Allen wrench to get the cover off, and regular screwdrivers to remove from the mount.  If you have the tools, you could at least check the status of your ethernet cable.

You didn't indicate when your Dealer set this up, but if basic functionality like Intercom wasn't set up properly, with some glitch in the Video Quality, it would seem that they would be obliged to fix it, with no additional expense.  If that's not an option for whatever reason, finding a new Dealer, or even using one of the Online guys here who can fix things remotely, might be worth exploring.

I have checked the ethernet cable and everything seems fine. I'm getting tired of this, also IMO the whole C4 doorstation functionality is just to complicated and rigid, if it doesnt work you dont really now why and sometimes even the delaer can't help (although he will charge for the help...). IDK, compared to some other doorbells this just seems a very expensive solution which don't really give you nothing special...

Since I have an Echo show in my kitchen, echo spot in the bedroom, echo show 8 in the office, echo show and 2 fire HD tablets mounted in hallways I am more and more inclined to replace the C4 doorbell with Ring elite. It has more functionalities, is cheaper and will integrate into my system better.

All this in a house where I have started with everything controlled by C4 (from all lights, blinds, windows, alarm, audio and video zones,...almost 30k worth of equipment). A pity really...

[ILoveC4]

I just noticed your programming - why do you have programming around initiating a call? I didn’t have to do any of that. When the button is pressed the call is made - no programming. I may go back and look at mine again but I’m 99% certain I don’t have programming like that. 
 

I also don’t feel like it’s complex. Someone presses the button, I get a notification on my phone. I click the notification and I see/hear the person at the door. Pretty straightforward.