Would a Kinect Like Accessory Work Today?

[therockhr]

You all remember the Kinect accessory for Xbox 360? It was a camera/microphone/motion detection device. It was supposed to bring motion only games to Xbox but I think they also had demos or it actually could go Skype calls. The device was kind of a flop. 
 

flash forward to today. If there was a device similar to that now that I could plug into say an Apple TV (they would have to add the USB back), Roku or Fire TV and be able to do FaceTime, Skype or Microsoft Teams meetings from my couch, I would be all about it now. 
 

im surprised that these streamers haven’t tried to push this technology. Are they not powerful enough?

[turls]

They had a new version for the Xbox One as well.  The current models won't even work with it without an adapter that is almost impossible to find.  So it hasn't been "dead" as long as all the way back to the Xbox 360 days.  I keep my Xbox 360 in my Theater specifically to play those titles.

I don't remember what the main reason for the demise of the tech was, but I think the core functionality you are seeking can be had through other means that are much more ubiquitous now than they were then.  Mainly a cell phone or tablet.

[lippavisual]

That’s what an Intel NUC is for.  Plenty of usb products to match up with that for VC applications.

 

also those Kinect devices were basically IR sensors and that’s it. 

[therockhr]

1 hour ago, lippavisual said:

That’s what an Intel NUC is for.  Plenty of usb products to match up with that for VC applications.

I get that but i dont want a PC hooked to my TV. Yes a PC can do more things but all that functionality isnt needed for 90% of users. No need to do screen sharing or things like that. Just video calls.

One thing that got me thinking about it was this Crestron HomeTime collab with Logitech https://www.crestron.com/News/Press-Releases/2020/Crestron-HomeTime-is-the-First-Fully-Integrated-Co . Looks like a cool solution but it is massive overkill. It would be nice to just fire up your apple tv or Roku and open the Teams/Zoom app and start a video conference.

[Pounce]

I have Kinect on two xbox consoles just for Skype. I've also had maybe a dozen different dedicated video conferencing stand alone camera solutions like you are suggesting over the years.

These dedicated video conferencing cameras all suffered from sort of what you can guess. The first one I got was back in 2002. It was consumer grade and actually worked pretty well, but back then to work it required a cloud broker run by the company that made them. When they went out of business my point to point devices were bricked. I've had others that do Skype and Bluejeans in the last 5 years. They suffered from not being able to keep up with software updates from the platforms they supported and from weak underpowered hardware. I think generally speaking there just hasn't been consumer demand to support good hardware and software in a consumer product. And as suggested the phone and tablet options are mostly better for the majority of the consumer use cases. Perhaps there is more demand now with the Pandemic. Maybe we will see some solutions, but I sort of doubt it.

What you want is a good webcam with onboard compression like a Logitech C920 (if you can even find one) and a stick computer. You get more freedom with your own cpu since you can keep your software up to date and since your camera is doing the heavy lifting your stick and simply handle display etc. All of that can be hidden behind a TV.

You can buy a commercial grade conferencing camera to get better bells and whistles. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/video-collaboration/products .

I've used many of the Logitech systems at work. They can be very convenient when linked to calendars etc in an office situation.

The thing I like about Kinect that some other products have is the tracking of the view. That's been helpful with family calls and a kinetic 6yo

[therockhr]

3 minutes ago, Pounce said:

I've also had maybe a dozen different dedicated video conferencing stand alone camera solutions like you are suggesting over the years.

I'm not really wanting a dedicated camera solution. I just want our existing streamers that we already have hooked up to our TVs (that are little computers) to allow a camera (like the logitech that you mentioned) to be hooked up. then just be able to open an app on that streamer and use it like you would on a computer or phone/tablet.

Like you mentioned, I am guessing people are fine using a phone for this. Just seems having a better camera and being able to view the other person/people on a TV would be a better experience than the "face really really close to the camera" view that we have now.

[lippavisual]

None of these streamers have the processing power if you ask me.  Even With the Shield, which is the most powerful, I don’t believe the experience would be suitable.  It does crash often with high demanding apps.   Now chalk that up to firmware, hardware, whatever.

[Pounce]

Yea, not enough CPU or resources on those little boxes. I think the Shield could do it with a good camera like the 920. I've used the 920 with skype on an android head unit in a car.

[South Africa C4 user]

I just balance my iPad under the TV pointed at my couch and airplay Zoom to my AppleTV.  Works great for me except for once when the iPad fell over! Would love a little camel that does this... but it would need to be WiFi in my use case as my Apple TV(s) is(are) in the rack and nowhere near the TV itself.

[therockhr]

1 hour ago, lippavisual said:

None of these streamers have the processing power if you ask me.  Even With the Shield, which is the most powerful, I don’t believe the experience would be suitable.  It does crash often with high demanding apps.   Now chalk that up to firmware, hardware, whatever.

Gotcha.If they cant handle it then it obviously makes sense why they havent added this functionality.

Any solution where someone has to connect a computer to a TV will never be adopted by most. If they could ever get these streamers the power to do it then it would make video calls through the TV pretty common.

[Pounce]

They used to make cameras for smart tv's like the Samsung VG-STC4000.

Part of the issue is that a camera on a TV in the room isn't always the best picture and with a wide angle camera and people back 10-12 feet on average the faces were small and the back lighting detracted. That's where the Kinect has some advantage. It zooms to the human in the room. Some of the conference cameras also do this with hardware. When you do this with software with a 1080p image the processing required isn't trivial.

I'm with you though. I'd like better consumer video gear that makes a fun and interesting experience with the TV as the main display.

[lippavisual]

What I’ve been doing for some homes is this.

1 Intel NUC with at least i5 processor, HDMI fed to the TV.

1 Huddly IQ camera, it’s small, discrete and has auto-ptz based on the number of people in the frame.  Attach to the TV with included TV clamp and plug USB to NUC   USB 3.0 is required here.

1 Stem Hub to provide USB output to NUC, Poe powered and sits on the network  

1 Stem Table with a long patch cord.  Poe powered as well. Can be moved wherever you are sitting and provide full pick up for all people.

Certainly more than what most would be willing to spend, but I’m putting these in CEO’s living rooms or offices (big plus if they have a current PC/Mac).  Company is paying the bill not the person.

The biggest headache right now is USB 3.0 extension.  The extender cables are terrible, typical usb over cat extenders don’t work or are non-existent.  The only extender I can vouch for is from Icron called the Raven at $1200 each.  

[therockhr]

3 hours ago, lippavisual said:

What I’ve been doing for some homes is this.

1 Intel NUC with at least i5 processor, HDMI fed to the TV.

1 Huddly IQ camera, it’s small, discrete and has auto-ptz based on the number of people in the frame.  Attach to the TV with included TV clamp and plug USB to NUC   USB 3.0 is required here.

1 Stem Hub to provide USB output to NUC, Poe powered and sits on the network  

1 Stem Table with a long patch cord.  Poe powered as well. Can be moved wherever you are sitting and provide full pick up for all people.

Certainly more than what most would be willing to spend, but I’m putting these in CEO’s living rooms or offices (big plus if they have a current PC/Mac).  Company is paying the bill not the person.

The biggest headache right now is USB 3.0 extension.  The extender cables are terrible, typical usb over cat extenders don’t work or are non-existent.  The only extender I can vouch for is from Icron called the Raven at $1200 each.  

Cool. Thanks for the info.

This sort of just reiterates what I have been saying. The computer in this equation is overkill. Its only real use is to open the video conferencing application (Teams, Zoom, etc) and have the connection to the camera. The keyboard and mouse are necessary nuisances. 

Yes the person could do screen sharing with the computer but if you are going to do that you are probably just going to use your laptop.

[Pounce]

59 minutes ago, therockhr said:

This sort of just reiterates what I have been saying. The computer in this equation is overkill. Its only real use is to open the video conferencing application (Teams, Zoom, etc) and have the connection to the camera.

Well, not exactly, but I'm not sure going into more detail helps the point.

[therockhr]

1 hour ago, Pounce said:

Well, not exactly, but I'm not sure going into more detail helps the point.

In the past probably 5-7 years, i cant remember anyone using a conference room computer other than to just log into the conference whether it be skype or teams. If someone in the room wanted to present something they would just share their laptop screen.

I'm just kind of talking out loud here on what I think would be nice. If they could make an Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV, etc. powerful enough to run teams or zoom and you just had to hook up a camera/microphone (say the Logitech Meetup https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/meetup-conferencecam) it would make installation of small conference rooms and home offices (with a cheaper camera of course) really simple. 

[Pounce]

Most all conference systems have a computer in the architecture whether people are touching it or interacting with it in the room. The computer is running the show and the conference system is driving the computer. Even the new Poly systems that say "no computer needed" are simply a built in computer running the Poly OS which is just a cobbled together linux system. It doesn't require a computer because it brought its own... and a price tag to reflect it.

You're in luck in that most computers that run conferencing software can also run Netflix and Amazon so you can think about it in reverse.

The computers aren't overkill. They are needed for the brains. You just in many cases don't need to interact with them like your typical computer. The newer systems are really great because you can set them up to join a meeting without even touching them. They can be connected to Teams and when you walk into the room at the time of the meeting they simply connect and start the meeting. In many cases you never see or know there is a "computer" anywhere. The console tablet and breakout has the HDMI etc needed to connect the laptop you brought to do your presentation etc.

I think most people want a $30 streaming stick that displays 4k for shows. Personally, I think there might be room in the consumer market after having the Pandemic for a $500 family room video conferencing solution that is also a streamer. I've worked on some in the past ... and they never made it to market. We just need to find a million other people that want what we want

 

That meetup system is mac, windows and I was surprised to see... chromebook compatible. I'm personally liking the Poly x30, but its expensive.

[therockhr]

4 minutes ago, Pounce said:

Personally, I think there might be room in the consumer market after having the Pandemic for a $500 family room video conferencing solution that is also a streamer.

I am thinking so too. Read an article a few months ago where new home builders saw a huge increase in people requesting to have dedicated home offices.

[therockhr]

Hmm. It looks like there are dedicated streaming apps for windows 10 now. Does windows have an api that control4 could use to launch them?

[lippavisual]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/858126-REG/Tely_Labs_11_TELYHD_01_01_telyHD_Skype_Video_Calling.html/amp
 

These were decent devices for a while.  Worked ok for smaller living rooms.  Plug it up and turn it on was all that was required for Skype. 

[Pounce]

31 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/858126-REG/Tely_Labs_11_TELYHD_01_01_telyHD_Skype_Video_Calling.html/amp
 

These were decent devices for a while.  Worked ok for smaller living rooms.  Plug it up and turn it on was all that was required for Skype. 

I have one of these within arms reach in a box if anyone needs one

[zaphod]

Microsoft was adamant when the Xbox One was introduced that The Kinect was a core part of the Xbox One experience.  But that didn't last too long, partially due to the fact that it added to the price of the product which was higher priced then the competitor from Sony.  My main TV room has both an Xbox One and 360 and I have Kinects for each on top of my TV.  But I have no desire to use these for videoconferencing.  And I am not very sure that you would need C4 integration, other than to turn on the TV and select the proper input.  You will often need rather fine control, like entering in text for addresses, so you will need another human interface other than a remote control.

I think people are happy to use other solutions, like tablets for videoconferencing in their living or TV rooms rather than using the main screen.  They are relatively cheap and have a myriad of other uses.  Why not just get an iPad for about $300-400?