How can I make Sonos less painful to use on Control4? Any tips or tricks that can be done?

[416to305]

When we looked into Control4, I was watching all the videos on the website where they show using Tidal and so on and really was looking forward to that interface.  We have Sonos in every room though so it didn't make sense to not keep using Sonos.  The problem though is now that my system is installed, to say I'm disappointed in how Sonos works would be an understatement.  I had no idea that the interface was 100% different from the Tidal music interface they show in all the videos on the Control4 website when using C4 audio.  Part of the reason we wanted a professional system was because I wanted touchscreens in the main room where I could easily just play music throughout the house without having to take out my phone, but unfortunately, we are having to use our phone still all the time.  Here's the issues I'm having and I don't know if there's any way to address or make them less painful:

- If I click a saved favourite or playlist, it only shows the next upcoming song.  I can't figure out any way to view the entire playlist and just pick a track I want, without having to keep pressing Next, Next, Next, cycling through hundreds of songs.  For example, I added the "My Tracks" playlist from TIDAL thinking I could just at least browse my music, but it only shows the next upcoming song.

- When a song is playing, I can't figure out how to actually fast forward or rewind it.  I have many 1 hour long DJ sets but I'll want to go to a specific part, but I can't figure out if it's even possible to fast forward.

- There's no way to actually SEARCH for anything you want to listen to.  I was hoping I could search by artist or browse other playlists or radio stations etc, but unless it's something I have saved, I have to always use my phone.  I'm not a music guy, I have no favourites, I rely on playlists and radio to discover music.

Etc, etc.  I had thought of maybe getting a Sonos Port or something and connecting it to the EA5 so that I can use the C4 TIDAL interface to search and do what I want, and then I'm assuming I could still use sessions to join other Sonos speakers.  My only issue with that is I assume all the other rooms would just show "Line In" as what's playing on the touchscreens, vs the actual track info like when using Sonos audio.  That also seems like a huge workaround just to have the ability to search for specific songs.  If there was a way to view the entire playlist and pick a specific song that would solve so much, but I can't seem to figure that out.

[-defunct-]

First question: Unfortunately the API and usage of Sonos is limited, so the full playlist won't ever show. You will need to change the audio devices to get that ability. I believe Heos and Ryff (Control4's native audio) are the only ones that allow that with a Control4 app or touchscreen.

second question: Seeking is not possible in a Control4 system, the most you can do is skip to the next track or restart the current track.

third question: The best solution here is Ryff (native audio), I believe Heos can as well, but I am not sure how good it is compared to the native experience.

[SpencerT]

Just to add another option, Bluesound / BluOS may be something to look at as well. The BluOS integration with c4 works well (tidal, qobuz and locally stored playlists, individual tracks, search, album art, mini apps, etc through the c4 app). We use a mix of BluOS and c4 native streaming. 

The c4 native streaming certainly has deeper integration (ability to favorite specific playlists or stations to a room, etc). If I had a larger controller I would likely use native across all my zones (Josh.ai may be what forces that change for me). 

We originally had some Sonos stuff when we moved from our previous system to control4 but quickly got rid of it for the reasons you mentioned.  Even with our previous system, Sonos integration was severely crippled when all the Sonos changes happened years ago. 

[416to305]

Guys you're supposed to help me make Sonos better not talk me into spending thousands more replacing it all! That's my biggest issue, we have 12 Sonos speakers, and 2 rooms have the full blown sound bar, sub, surround speakers, etc so I just hate to replace it all.  That BluOS looks cool though as my biggest thing is running speaker wire is not realistic as my house was just built and I don't want to start getting into all of that especially after having Sonos for many many years and always being wireless.  Was actually going to post on here asking what people do if they want C4 audio but can't run all new wires. I'll mess around and check into the options, thanks!

[msgreenf]

but the point is there is only so much that can be done...

[LollerAgent]

41 minutes ago, 416to305 said:

Guys you're supposed to help me make Sonos better not talk me into spending thousands more replacing it all! That's my biggest issue, we have 12 Sonos speakers, and 2 rooms have the full blown sound bar, sub, surround speakers, etc so I just hate to replace it all.  That BluOS looks cool though as my biggest thing is running speaker wire is not realistic as my house was just built and I don't want to start getting into all of that especially after having Sonos for many many years and always being wireless.  Was actually going to post on here asking what people do if they want C4 audio but can't run all new wires. I'll mess around and check into the options, thanks!

The Triad One may be an option for you.  It's similar to a Sonos AMP in that it allows you to have "wireless" C4 native zones.  You still obviously need to connect speakers to the Triad 1, but it just needs a network connection (wired or wireless) beyond that.

[416to305]

Thanks everyone!  Good to know it doesn't involve rewiring the whole house for speakers.  

[Time2Jet]

What Gen Sonos would be my first question?

You will never be happy with the Sonos integration unless you are a ride or die Sonos guy. And that’s definitely okay. It’s a neat little ecosystem, but it’s own.

I was a ride or die, but then I sold off all of my Sonos for Heos because of some of the reasons others recommended Heos for AND because I got top dollar from all of my Sonos as a resell if supply chain issues. You still can get a lot for it.

I also experimented with BlueOS and liked it, but it too fell short (can’t remember why). I do remember it was nice.

You won’t be happy until you do Ryff or even Mirage (Autonomics). There are trade offs for both, but please don’t design your distributed audio around AVRs and Soundbars. Dedicate speakers for distributed audio only.  I was stuck on that forever (hence my 3 prior audio experiments… just feels better calling them experiments).

Do separate distributed versus adding your AV endpoints and you’ll get the full Ryff, Mirage or Fusion experience. If you’re doing Room Control Driver preset cycler, do native. Want a more robust Spotify, choose mirage or fusion.

Done.


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[RAV]

Roon maybe an option.
(It's an app overlay, for people who love to discover music, and their big into Tidal)

There's a Control4 driver and Sonos units function as end points.

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/control4#Overview

You can free trial the software, requires a PC running their client.
BUT, you'll have to buy their Server to use the Control4 driver, and there's yearly license fees.
it's a great piece of software on it's own and may give you what you're looking for.
Way cheaper than starting over.

[416to305]

8 minutes ago, RAV said:

Roon maybe an option.
(It's an app overlay, for people who love to discover music, and their big into Tidal)

There's a Control4 driver and Sonos units function as end points.

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/control4#Overview

You can free trial the software, requires a PC running their client.
BUT, you'll have to buy their Server to use the Control4 driver, and there's yearly license fees.
it's a great piece of software on it's own and may give you what you're looking for.
Way cheaper than starting over.

Very cool thanks!  That definitely might be an option especially since it uses Sonos as endpoints.  Figures the Control4 driver only works with the Nucleus and not when running the software elsewhere, but that's okay.

[Time2Jet]

Roon maybe an option.
(It's an app overlay, for people who love to discover music, and their big into Tidal)
There's a Control4 driver and Sonos units function as end points.
https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/control4#Overview
You can free trial the software, requires a PC running their client.
BUT, you'll have to buy their Server to use the Control4 driver, and there's yearly license fees.
it's a great piece of software on it's own and may give you what you're looking for.
Way cheaper than starting over.

(Palm to head). Roon is a solution here. He mentioned Tidal and all of the bells should have rang for me.

Trialing won’t show you C4 integration however. Reach out if you need info I am a dealer.


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[416to305]

Just now, time2jet said:

(Palm to head). Roon is a solution here. He mentioned Tidal and all of the bells should have rang for me.

Trialing won’t show you C4 integration however. Reach out if you need info I am a dealer.


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Will do thanks!  I have a few other projects on the go but I'll definitely reach out if I decide to go down this path!