Cost of Control4 in a house, just wondering

[ILoveC4]

Just occurred to me that the dealer you are using is probably not a licensed electrician and so they are probably adding the costs of a licensed electrician into the dimmer installation price.

I usually just give the all of the High Voltage parts to the electrician and let them install as part of their work. Saves the client a ton of money since I don't have to pay my guy to do that portion of the work and the electricians don't mind installing them since they have flying leads on each unit. Makes it easier for them.

I'd work on narrowing down EXACTLY what you need (since the dimmer counts are already so out of line already) then you can get a bottom line price on the job. Right now they are probably just handing you budget numbers until things get refined.

That's something I was considering as well' date=' but wouldn't the Control4 dealer charge me for programming each light as well? Also, the Control4 dealers are saying that if the other company installs the light switch then they will not warranty it.[/quote']

Check it out, I'll just say it how it is here. 99% of the time once a dimmer is physically installed, the time to get that dimmer working is less than 30 seconds. That includes adding the driver to the project, naming it, and walking over to the dimmer to identify it.

There are a lot of challenging and complicated things that dealers do that deserve high wages, but adding a dimmer to your project (once physically installed) is not one of them. Even the physical installation of the dimmer is a breeze once you've done it once or twice. If you have three/four/five way lighting it takes me a few minutes to straighten out what wire is what, but I am no electrician and hardly ever do it.

That labor for dimmer installation is crazy. IMO if you are buying a few dimmers, considering the markup already made in those, the installation should be charged at a real time hourly rate, not a crazy flat rate like this.

Sorry for the rant, just my .02.

[M3AL]

Just occurred to me that the dealer you are using is probably not a licensed electrician and so they are probably adding the costs of a licensed electrician into the dimmer installation price.

I usually just give the all of the High Voltage parts to the electrician and let them install as part of their work. Saves the client a ton of money since I don't have to pay my guy to do that portion of the work and the electricians don't mind installing them since they have flying leads on each unit. Makes it easier for them.

I'd work on narrowing down EXACTLY what you need (since the dimmer counts are already so out of line already) then you can get a bottom line price on the job. Right now they are probably just handing you budget numbers until things get refined.

That's something I was considering as well' date=' but wouldn't the Control4 dealer charge me for programming each light as well? Also, the Control4 dealers are saying that if the other company installs the light switch then they will not warranty it.[/quote']

Check it out, I'll just say it how it is here. 99% of the time once a dimmer is physically installed, the time to get that dimmer working is less than 30 seconds. That includes adding the driver to the project, naming it, and walking over to the dimmer to identify it.

There are a lot of challenging and complicated things that dealers do that deserve high wages, but adding a dimmer to your project (once physically installed) is not one of them. Even the physical installation of the dimmer is a breeze once you've done it once or twice. If you have three/four/five way lighting it takes me a few minutes to straighten out what wire is what, but I am no electrician and hardly ever do it.

That labor for dimmer installation is crazy. IMO if you are buying a few dimmers, considering the markup already made in those, the installation should be charged at a real time hourly rate, not a crazy flat rate like this.

Sorry for the rant, just my .02.

No I really appreciate all the information. I will talk with the electrician and see if he can install them instead. He won't have to purchase the other lights switches if he does it this way. So technically it shouldn't cost anything extra to put the switch in place. I appreciate it.

[Hotsambal60]

as someone who is going to be going through a Control4 install on a new house I have found this thread exceedingly interesting as well as informative. I am currently deciding on what to put in my house to start with as I have a budget that my wife insists I stay within (sigh). I am trying to decide if it's better to concentrate on the audio side (all home music) or work on the lightening or try and split the two. (can't so both totally at this time). It sounds like it is easier to install the lighting controls after the build (as long as prewired) then adding in ceiling speakers. I have a dealer (same electricians that are contracted by the builder to wire the house) which I think will be good (we only have two platuinum dealers in the city) so hopefuly some of the install costs can be defrayed against the builder cost of the house LOL

edit spelling errors

[ILoveC4]

I can tell you the easiest thing to retrofit is the lighting. You MUST run all your audio prior to drywall or you will be cutting holes and pulling your hair out. If you are building the house now the wiring will be sufficient for C4 lighting.

[M3AL]

I think you should pre-wire for everything you want. No matter if you are going to install it right away or future. Lighting does not need any pre-wire so I think you are safe there. As ILoveC4 says you should definately run all your audio wires before sheetrock. Also, if you are thinking about putting additional Touchscreens in areas later then I would run a Cat5 wire there as well. You can always add a wireless one but still recommend doing this.

[RyanE]

+1 on both m3al and ILoveC4's posts. Use your budget running wire:

* Speaker Wiring to all speaker locations

* Control (keypad) wiring (CAT5) to head height in every room by the door, or anywhere else you would possibly want a keypad

* Motion sensor / door / window contact security wiring.

* Network / Phone / Video wiring to all rooms -- May be better to run conduit to these locations, and then just pull in what you need later. Speaker, Keypad and Security wiring is pretty much fixed, and everyone knows what to run. For Video, and how many network drops you'll want, you might change your mind in the future, so conduit is good.

RyanE

[Hotsambal60]

Thanks. I never thought of the keypads or control wiring. Good ideas and will definitely incorporate these things in. I was planning to run "Smart Media" wiring (bundled cat5e cat6 and coxial cables) but I should broaden my scope as to where I want it moved to.

[ILoveC4]

Thanks. I never thought of the keypads or control wiring. Good ideas and will definitely incorporate these things in. I was planning to run "Smart Media" wiring (bundled cat5e cat6 and coxial cables) but I should broaden my scope as to where I want it moved to.

While that is great it is fairly expensive and will probably be overkill. Cat5E is cheap, I would recommend running it to any potential touchpanel location. cat5e is all you will need for a touchpanel.

I ran conduit all over my house and so I agree with RyanE's suggestion. Conduit is cheaper than the cable you are suggesting, and it is as future proof as you can get being you can just run new cable with ease.

Good luck with your project.

[M3AL]

Thanks. I never thought of the keypads or control wiring. Good ideas and will definitely incorporate these things in. I was planning to run "Smart Media" wiring (bundled cat5e cat6 and coxial cables) but I should broaden my scope as to where I want it moved to.

The other thing I recommend make sure every wire is labeled at the source and termination area. That way you don't have to figure everything out later. And tell them not to use masking tape to label wires.

Just FYI: for my pre-wire I am probably running the following bundled:

3 - Cat5's

2 - RG6

1 - Set of component bundle

I've heard running the component wire bundle gives you a better video signal. I've also decided to go away with the HDMI Matrix switch for now (that's why I have 2 Cat5 cables for future).

Forgot about the IR wire

[hvr123]

I just finished the prewire for my home and future c4 setup. I ran the following to each TV location:

5 Cat6 cables

2 for HDMI over cat6

1 for ethernet

1 for IR control

1 for future use for something cool I haven't even heard of yet

Probably overkill but like everyone is saying.....Cat cable is cheap and easy to run before the drywall goes up.

[bsanf3]

+1 on both m3al and ILoveC4's posts. Use your budget running wire:

* Speaker Wiring to all speaker locations

* Control (keypad) wiring (CAT5) to head height in every room by the door, or anywhere else you would possibly want a keypad

* Motion sensor / door / window contact security wiring.

* Network / Phone / Video wiring to all rooms -- May be better to run conduit to these locations, and then just pull in what you need later. Speaker, Keypad and Security wiring is pretty much fixed, and everyone knows what to run. For Video, and how many network drops you'll want, you might change your mind in the future, so conduit is good.

RyanE

Another vote for prewire and conduit as much as you can. I'm currently re-wiring my place and installing HomePath's conduit system http://www.homepathproducts.com/homepath/index.php

[RyanE]

Conduit is the one thing I didn't run when I built my house, and that was only 8 years ago.

I don't have too many regrets about the build (I fortunately *do* have a *LOT* of low-voltage wiring, and plenty of CAT5), but not having conduit is one regret I do have.

RyanE

[tebery]

If possible, put a wired contact on every window and door (even if on the second floor). It's so nice to jump on 4sight and check to see if any windows are open.

One thing I did not prewire for, but wish I did, was for motorized blinds.

[M3AL]

If possible, put a wired contact on every window and door (even if on the second floor). It's so nice to jump on 4sight and check to see if any windows are open.

One thing I did not prewire for, but wish I did, was for motorized blinds.

I was questioning that as well and I am going to get the motorized blinds pre-wired. Probably won't do it right away but for future I will.

[ILoveC4]

Also one regret of mine. Motorized shutters would very nice.

[jberger]

Edit to add: turns out this proposal is NOT from my old dealer.

If you don't mind me asking who was your old dealer? This dealer I got the bid from does not have a showroom and doesn't really return phone calls. That's one thing that makes me very hesitant on going with this guy besides the price. He is very knowledgable about Control4 though.

If he won't call you back before you pay him, he will never call you back after the check has cleared. . .

Just a thought.

I've had client in similar situations where they had quotes all over the map and could not compare apples to apples. You've also stated you want wire maps and labels for all the terminations.

Why not pay for a design document that incorporates everything you want, hardware, wiring, etc. based on your floorplan and criteria.

Then you can request quotes based on your own scope of work (that has been created by a C4 dealer) and compare apples to apples.

It's worked for us in the past and keeps everyone on the same page. It IS more money upfront, since you are essentially paying a design fee but once you have the proven prints in hand you can ensure that everyone quotes on the same basis.

It's not perfect, as dealers sometimes have different ideas of what constitutes best practices.

Final thought, be leary of deals that are too good to be true or don't have enough profit for the integrator. Post installation support is perhaps the MOST important issue when choosing a dealer. You can't stay in business unless you are profitable. No one wants to pay too much, but not paying enough can cost you more money in the long term.

[M3AL]

Edit to add: turns out this proposal is NOT from my old dealer.

If you don't mind me asking who was your old dealer? This dealer I got the bid from does not have a showroom and doesn't really return phone calls. That's one thing that makes me very hesitant on going with this guy besides the price. He is very knowledgable about Control4 though.

If he won't call you back before you pay him, he will never call you back after the check has cleared. . .

Just a thought.

I've had client in similar situations where they had quotes all over the map and could not compare apples to apples. You've also stated you want wire maps and labels for all the terminations.

Why not pay for a design document that incorporates everything you want, hardware, wiring, etc. based on your floorplan and criteria.

Then you can request quotes based on your own scope of work (that has been created by a C4 dealer) and compare apples to apples.

It's worked for us in the past and keeps everyone on the same page. It IS more money upfront, since you are essentially paying a design fee but once you have the proven prints in hand you can ensure that everyone quotes on the same basis.

It's not perfect, as dealers sometimes have different ideas of what constitutes best practices.

Final thought, be leary of deals that are too good to be true or don't have enough profit for the integrator. Post installation support is perhaps the MOST important issue when choosing a dealer. You can't stay in business unless you are profitable. No one wants to pay too much, but not paying enough can cost you more money in the long term.

Most dealers I have dealt with have put what they think is best. I've basically taken the items I'm actually interested in and made a spreadsheet comparing each dealers prices on the same items. At the bottom of the spreadsheet I put variances on equipments for networking, cameras and alarm systems. Also, most of the dealers I have spoken to won't give me a wiring diagram unless I sign the contract with them. I refuse to do this with them and told them I will pay them for the wiring diagram for now so I can review it. They all declined that idea. I might just make my own, it's not that difficult to do. Thanks for the advice.

[CFUG]

...One thing I did not prewire for, but wish I did, was for motorized blinds.

I did but ended-up with remote Somfy units- I don't regret, I just used the box/wire for a spy cam.

[ILoveC4]

...One thing I did not prewire for' date=' but wish I did, was for motorized blinds.[/quote']

I did but ended-up with remote Somfy units- I don't regret, I just used the box/wire for a spy cam.

What's the IP?

Also, just curious as I am not real familiar with Somfy, but how are the blinds controlled and integrated to C4?

[pharmdsmith]

Post installation support is perhaps the MOST important issue when choosing a dealer.

I totally agree with this. If you have bad vibes or are not feeling comfortable about a dealer, RUN. If you're running into issues preinstall when they're trying to get paid, good luck with them after they're paid. Dealers on here helping people post install, these are the guys you want.

[tebery]

...One thing I did not prewire for' date=' but wish I did, was for motorized blinds.[/quote']

I did but ended-up with remote Somfy units- I don't regret, I just used the box/wire for a spy cam.

Do you use the battery version? If so how long to they last? And are they noisy?

[M3AL]

Post installation support is perhaps the MOST important issue when choosing a dealer.

I totally agree with this. If you have bad vibes or are not feeling comfortable about a dealer' date=' RUN. If you're running into issues preinstall when they're trying to get paid, good luck with them after they're paid. Dealers on here helping people post install, these are the guys you want.[/quote']

Yeah I already ruled that dealer out after I got his bid. The crazy thing is he was the highest priced on the system as well. He thinks he can take advantage of customers, by charging 20% above MSRP on the equipment. Don't know how he can stay in business. Maybe he really isn't.

[C4newbies]

Hey guys

I am new to this site and like all new guys I am here to figure out what I need and approximately what its going to cost to get Control4. I just want to be as educated as possible when I go to meet the installer. We are building a new house and I was wondering if I posted the plans of my house and a description of what i want to do one of you guys could help me figure out what equipment I will need to do what I want. That way I know I will not be taken advantage of when I go to see the installer. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Aaron

[bjeff]

Hey guys

I am new to this site and like all new guys I am here to figure out what I need and approximately what its going to cost to get Control4. I just want to be as educated as possible when I go to meet the installer. We are building a new house and I was wondering if I posted the plans of my house and a description of what i want to do one of you guys could help me figure out what equipment I will need to do what I want. That way I know I will not be taken advantage of when I go to see the installer. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Aaron

You can do that, but I think it is better to find a few dealers and explain to them the goals for your project and see how they will meet the needs that are important to you and your household, then post any questions to the forum. The problem will posting the full project, so many people design and install differently, it becomes very difficult to determine what is truly required to meet your needs. Some will focus on performance, others on stability, and some on saving money to get into the system.

Just my .02

[C4newbies]

Thanks bud

I will do that. There are only two dealers in my town so I just wanted a little bit of dealer knowledge before I went to see them.

Thanks for the advice