rayk32 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Just a couple of questions before investing in an audio upgrade to my system:Other than the obvious need for separate amplifiers for each channel, can someone out there offer any advice about these two products? What do I gain or lose between the two devices?I've heard of a few reliability problems on this site with the fan in the 8 Zone Amp, but beyond that, should I be wary?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letran Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Completely 2 different products.C4-16AMP3-B is an 8 zone amplifierC4-16S2-E-B is a 16x16 audio matrix switchYou cannot use the C4-16S2-E-B unless you have at least the C4-16AMP3-B is an 8 zone amplifier and you need more that 8 zones or 8 audio sources.Typically you will want 2x C4-16AMP3-B is an 8 zone amplifier1x C4-16S2-E-B is a 16x16 audio matrix switchDoes that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayk32 Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Completely 2 different products.C4-16AMP3-B is an 8 zone amplifierC4-16S2-E-B is a 16x16 audio matrix switchYou cannot use the C4-16S2-E-B unless you have at least the C4-16AMP3-B is an 8 zone amplifier and you need more that 8 zones or 8 audio sources.Typically you will want 2x C4-16AMP3-B is an 8 zone amplifier1x C4-16S2-E-B is a 16x16 audio matrix switchDoes that make sense?Yes, I understand what you're saying. Can you also use separate 3rd party amps for each output zone on the C4-16S2-E-B or is it a requirement that you have to use the C4-16AMP3-B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letran Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Not so sure. But communicating with the controller mght be a little dicey. Delays etc, that's if you really have too. In my opinion the 8zone amp is one of the best value that you can get for your money out of the c4 products. the matrix switch on the other hand.Are you saying you need more than 8 zones in your system because the amp in itself has a built in 8x8 audio switch already. Only if you need more than 8 sources or zones you would need the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayk32 Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Not so sure. But communicating with the controller mght be a little dicey. Delays etc, that's if you really have too. In my opinion the 8zone amp is one of the best value that you can get for your money out of the c4 products. the matrix switch on the other hand.Are you saying you need more than 8 zones in your system because the amp in itself has a built in 8x8 audio switch already. Only if you need more than 8 sources or zones you would need the switch.At this point I only have 8 zones of output and I expect it to only increase by 1 or 2. If I go with the 8 zone amp, I would use speaker points for those additional spaces. However, I do like the idea that the matrix switch is $1300.00 and I can add different amps as I add listening zones (inexpensive amps for some areas and better amps for others) ... I should add that I don't what kind of problems or complexity this adds to the mix. I'm also concerned about the 8 zone amp due to a couple of complaints about sound quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaarchie Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 You can use third party amplifiers with the audio switch. If you do this you would need to use the audio switch as the volume end point (as well as the other audio end points) in the rooms connected to itOne caveat with doing this is that when using the audio switch as the volume end point the volume goes up and down in incraments of 4, where as if you use the Control4 Amp the volume goes up and down in increment of 1Archie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 If you do this you would need to use the audio switch as the volume end point (as well as the other audio end points) in the rooms connected to itYou could use the 3rd party amp for volume control. if it can control volume and there is a driver for it. You might not get all the functionality as the C4 amp.the best option is still to use the C4 amp as it integrates better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayk32 Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 If you do this you would need to use the audio switch as the volume end point (as well as the other audio end points) in the rooms connected to itYou could use the 3rd party amp for volume control. if it can control volume and there is a driver for it. You might not get all the functionality as the C4 amp.the best option is still to use the C4 amp as it integrates better.OK, thanks for all of your responses, but I'm a little confused ...Are you guys saying that the matrix is not a zoned pre-amp that has volume control capability? When I was referring to 3rd party amps, I was talking about power amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 [OK, thanks for all of your responses, but I'm a little confused ...Are you guys saying that the matrix is not a zoned pre-amp that has volume control capability? When I was referring to 3rd party amps, I was talking about power amps.The matrix is exactly that. You ill be able to use 3rd party power amps and the matrix will control the volume. The matrix does not have the same granularity in volume control as the C4 amp. Turning up the volume on the C4 matrix one notch will increase the volume more than turning up the volume on the C4 amp the same one notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayk32 Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Thanks letran, kaarchie, and henniae! This clears it all up for me, but of course I have a two more questions. A 4-to-1 increase in volume per click seems pretty big, is there anyway to compensate for this?I think letran likes the 8 zone amp ... kaarchie and henniae, what would you guys do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdvr Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 The reason he likes the amp is that you get 8 zones, built in 8x8 matrix parametric EQ in one box. It is one of the best values in Control4's stable.Also with the built in control of it, can program starting volume levels and see feedback on the navigator. You may be able to accomplish this with 3rd party amps, (if they have a two way driver written for them) but the 8zone amp is quick and easy.Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 There's no good way to compensate for the matrix switch controlling volume in larger increments.It's because, since it's not an amp, it is just "padding down" the 1V Peak-to-Peak (line level) output signal strength, and the switching chipsets used only support 25 levels.It's much better to do volume with an amp that can be controlled, and the easiest one is the Control4 amplifier.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayk32 Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Thanks guys! I really appreciate all the advice. C4-16AMP3-B is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Yup, buy the amp. You'll love it! Oh yeah, and buy the V3. Much better than the V1 & V2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 What's the difference between V1/V2 and V3 Matrix amps? A few of these are up on fleebay right now. So cosmetically you can pick because the V1 and V2 have the power outlet bottom left (with C4 logo above this) as you face the rear of the unit... Whilst the V3 has it top left (with the C4 logo on the right side of this) But what is the practical difference. Better matrix? Better volume control? More power per channel? less fan noise? Compatability with new 2.6 audio? What? Thank again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Come to think about it, what is the difference between the new 16x16 matrix: C4-16ZAMSv3-B and the older C4-16S2-E-B? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I believe the new Audio Switch does volume in smaller 1% increments, where the old one did 4%. One of the many reasons for this is to be able to use Control4's new amplifiers, which do not have switching / volume capabilities. I'm not a PM for audio, but that's what I think I heard at CEDIA last year when they were announced (the new amps and new switch). RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I believe the new Audio Switch does volume in smaller 1% increments, where the old one did 4%. One of the many reasons for this is to be able to use Control4's new amplifiers, which do not have switching / volume capabilities. I'm not a PM for audio, but that's what I think I heard at CEDIA last year when they were announced (the new amps and new switch). RyanEThanks for that Ryan. Be a deal breaker for me. I have heaps of power amps without volume lying around. Any other differences? What about the differences between the old and new C4 Matrix/power amps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melfeky Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Very interesting discussion. I have 9 zones and considering using the 8-zone AMP. I am wondering what I have to do for the extra zone .. a speaker point? and will I need an extra matrix to switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Theater Advisors Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 It depends on your budget and how much flexibility you want. For example, if you want to keep budget down and don't mind joining two of the zones (they would always play the same content at the same volume), you could just put an impedance matching speaker selector switch on one of the speaker binding posts coming out of the matrix amp. Say for two currently separate outdoor zones or for an open dining room/kitchen where you would never play two separate things anyway and always having them both on/off together isn't an issue. If that isn't an option, get the 16x16 audio matrix switch and put one 16 channel (8 zone) amp and another single zone amp for the 9th zone Mark Feinberg Home Theater Advisors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melfeky Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Home Theater Advisors said: f that isn't an option, get the 16x16 audio matrix switch and put one 16 channel (8 zone) amp and another single zone amp for the 9th zone Mark Feinberg Home Theater Advisors Thanks Mark, The second option seems perfect for me. I have another issue though, I have a different automation system running (Vimar). I would like to control C4 audio system through Vimar Automation. Vimar Supports RS232. So the question is: Can I fully control the audio system through RS232? and how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Theater Advisors Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 No idea. That would be a question for Vimar. But why use c4 amps and matrices then? Why not use something supported directly by Vimar (which I've never heard of so I have no idea what works with it and what doesn't). Or just go with 8 sonos connect:amps - will cost you about $4k. Mark Feinberg Home Theater Advisors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melfeky Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, Home Theater Advisors said: No idea. That would be a question for Vimar. But why use c4 amps and matrices then? Why not use something supported directly by Vimar (which I've never heard of so I have no idea what works with it and what doesn't). Or just go with 8 sonos connect:amps - will cost you about $4k. Mark Feinberg Home Theater Advisors Theoretically, Vimar does support sending commands over RS232. However, I have no idea how to program C4 to respond to those commands. I will check the sonos option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melfeky Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, Home Theater Advisors said: No idea. That would be a question for Vimar. But why use c4 amps and matrices then? Why not use something supported directly by Vimar (which I've never heard of so I have no idea what works with it and what doesn't). Or just go with 8 sonos connect:amps - will cost you about $4k. Mark Feinberg Home Theater Advisors Theoretically, Vimar does support sending commands over RS232. However, I have no idea how to program C4 to respond to those commands. I will check the sonos option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Theater Advisors Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 And you'd need 9 sonos amps - it's one per zone. Forgot you had 9 zones. Or go with autonomic if you don't want or have room for, 9 sonos amps. They are just a touch over 2u in height so need 3u in a rack and can fit 2 to a shelf easily, 3 if you put one in the back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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