wappinghigh Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I'll keep using tech as long as it has a purpose and performs up to speed.And my HC1000 does that it spades right now. But there will come a time when it won't, or a software upgrade will be problematic....Ok. Given my HC1000 is now next to worthless and it is basically just a linux based 1.2GHz Celeron computer, what exactly is stopping us opening this guy up and upgrading the motherboard and processor? Can those who are in "the know", post the tech details and possibilities please...I'll start by linking to this thread from 2 years back: http://www.c4forums.com/viewtopic.php?id=3410 Lets go to it chaps, and mod this baby! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanchow Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 It's locked down. Do not replace the motherboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 It's locked down. Do not replace the motherboard.OK. I didn't say I was going to touch it, I just wanted to know if it could be upgraded..We all know it is just a basic motherboard and processor in a computer case...I still see a role for a super fast master controller (without all the IR and serial outputs etc)Actually come to think of it, whey doesn't C4 release an upgraded board and processor for it? Surely this would be easy to do. It would be quick and cheap to ship, and dealers could slot it in for us. I'd buy it, if it was available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I've been down that road. All I can say is good luck =)I can share more details if you feel they'd be valuable, but the short story is what Alan said. Don't waste your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 While it's certainly *possible* to upgrade it, there's also the possibility that the embedded Linux installed on it won't have the proper drivers built-in for the motherboard you put into it.There's nothing wrong with trying, but there won't be any support if it doesn't work, obviously.IMHO, It wouldn't make much sense for Control4 to sell new motherboards / memory / CPU because dealers are not PC builders, and I'd bet many of them don't know squat about ESD or safe handling procedures.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoskiguy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 The post pretty much identifies all the part numbers. The only thing that looks non standard is that small board labeled HC-1000. It's plugged into the USB header. Could be something as simple as a USB drive that plugs directly into a USB header, could be something more, don't have one, so I could not tell you. Would be interesting to see what happens that HC-1000 board were plugged into a similar board though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 While it's certainly *possible* to upgrade it, there's also the possibility that the embedded Linux installed on it won't have the proper drivers built-in for the motherboard you put into it.There's nothing wrong with trying, but there won't be any support if it doesn't work, obviously.IMHO, It wouldn't make much sense for Control4 to sell new motherboards / memory / CPU because dealers are not PC builders, and I'd bet many of them don't know squat about ESD or safe handling procedures.RyanESure Ryan. Ah...this is hardly a PC "build", and is precisely what dealers should be for! There looks to be nothing complicated about the HC1000 case to me...I find it hard to fathom what would be so difficult about releasing an updated board, and shipping them out to dealers with some instructions on how to replace the board.Clients of the dealers could drop their HC1000's into their office, the dealers could do the upgrade and you'd be done...Are you suggesting we just ditch this hardware into landfill? A simple upgrade could easily extend the life of this unit another 3-4 years...Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xc420 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Here are some chipsets tthat should be compatible.intelfb: Framebuffer driver for Intel® 830M/845G/852GM/855GM/865G/915G/915GM/945G/945GM/945GME/965G/965GM chipsets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'm not saying that dealers couldn't be taught to do it, but I am saying that Control4's model is not to ship bare boards to dealers and have them do an upgrade.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Ok, I must be missing something. Why is the 1000 worthless suddenly? Did it quit working? I have yet to see a residential project push a 1000 to the limit with director or zserver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Ok, I must be missing something. Why is the 1000 worthless suddenly? Did it quit working? I have yet to see a residential project push a 1000 to the limit with director or zserver.My OP said it was still great (now). I'm not complaining about it at the moment...it's fantastic.But the price on the HC800 means the 1000 is now worthless. There is no second hand trade (because composer pro is locked down). The post was more a need to think and plan ahead. And as a reminder to C4 that it needs to think about it's current customers (rather than new user's all the time)It seems it would take 6-12 months to get a new upgraded board out there too market anyway. By that time we might need the extra speed and computing power..what with all these extra IP drivers, IP camera feeds, and the likes of EV and Recluse coming on the scene I'm not sure why asking for an (easy to do) upgrade to what has been a great product, is such an evil thing anyway. Make more sense than just rolling out another HC1000V4 or whatever. Give us existing users more spare change to spend on door stations, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'm not saying that dealers couldn't be taught to do it, but I am saying that Control4's model is not to ship bare boards to dealers and have them do an upgrade.RyanEOk. Well why is there any harm in tweeking "the model". Since when is "a model" unadaptable, or set in stone anyway...? After all it's just "a model".... Who knows, it might give the dealers something to do. They might actually enjoy fiddling around in a computer case for a change (rather than behind one)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Ok, I must be missing something. Why is the 1000 worthless suddenly? Did it quit working? I have yet to see a residential project push a 1000 to the limit with director or zserver.You really have to ask this? Look at every other piece of tech and watch what happens when the next model is released. The iPhone 4 still works well, heck the 3GS still works great, however once the 4s was released it tanked prices on the other two phones. I'm sure you were kidding when you asked this question. Had the 800 not come out and been perceived as the new "Top of the Line" controller the prices wouldn't have gone down on the 1000, however at this time the 800 is perceived as superior. If that is true remains to be see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytom Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Since when did electronic's become a investment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm not saying electronics should be an investment either...The facts are the HC1000 is basically a linux based motherboard and cpu in a computer case.Now nobody has any problem with computer upgrades. My guess is pretty much every user on this forum has upgraded their computer at one time or other..Swapping boards and memory. So why should Control4 have a problem with customers asking for this in the HC1000?I'm really not sure why anybody would have a problem saying this is not a sensible thing to offer customers.........geez...it's like squeezing blood out of a stone on this forum sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazplex Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm not saying electronics should be an investment either...The facts are the HC1000 is basically a linux based motherboard and cpu in a computer case.Now nobody has any problem with computer upgrades. My guess is pretty much every user on this forum has upgraded their computer at one time or other..Swapping boards and memory. So why should Control4 have a problem with customers asking for this in the HC1000?I'm really not sure why anybody would have a problem saying this is not a sensible thing to offer customers.........geez...it's like squeezing blood out of a stone on this forum sometimes I don't know any other electronics manufacter that does this. Even if it's technically a computer, it's still sold as an electronics component. I can't open up my plasma to add 3D or my receiver and add 7.1 to it by going back to the dealer. Technology evolves, and last years model is always worth less than the newer one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Any other C4 component or home controller can be recycled thru other parts of the house/project and remain in the system. That is except the HC1000. Why? Because it is the "brains" of the whole system. It has no other purpose. So when along comes a new HC (in this case the 800) which tops it for speed and performance, the HC1000 is redundant. It's a dead end box. But I'm arguing, it doesn't have to be that way. Physically and practically it would be a soda to upgrade..As for the argument that no other electronics manufacturer does this..this is an extraordinary statement. An entire country (Taiwan) has built an industry on doing just that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazplex Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Upgrading user-replaceable parts is not the same thing as the hack job you're implying in this thread. And as far as a dead-end box, just because it no longer serves a purpose in your project, doesn't mean there is no secondary market whatsoever. Granted, you'll get a lot less for it now than you would have last week, but I'm happy as a prospective buyer at these prices because it will do what I need. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm happy as a prospective buyer at these prices because it will do what I need. Cheers.Are you implying you are about to buy a new one? Stop... and rethink this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazplex Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 No, but I would buy a used one if I got a good price on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Ok. So what do you think one is now worth? The 800 will be rrp $999.00 brand new. It's apparently 1.3x faster. And has all the other outputs. And unlimited attached storage (via esata)I'd be interested to know what you would pay for one?...My take is very few dealers would take on a used HC1000 (at these prices). It will be not worth their while. Pure and Simple. So the only second hand market is right here on this forum. To people who can be bothered to run a dodgy version of composer pro or lucky enough to find another dealer online to shift their whole project and re-install on the second hand HC1000 for them. All this costs money. That's why I say this thing has become next to worthless now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 The problem is the pricing of the HC800..It's great for new users, but a disgrace for existing users.By undercutting the price of the HC1000 so much (the 800 is only 30% of the 1000) the second hand price of the 1000 is well and truly screwed..Very few technology companies do that to existing customers...Upgraded technology is nearly always put to market at existing prices....It would like Apple selling a brand new imac at 30% of the existing one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanchow Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 alex that is msrp pricing.At the end of the day you need to weigh up the pro's and cons. For existing customers i think that replacing the HC1000 with a HC800 is a waste of time and money. What benefits are there? If you were to do anything i would utilise the HC250's when they are avaialble and keep the HC1000. Existing customers who want to replace their HC200,300,500 now thats a different story. The navigator performance increase is definately worthwhile in my opinion but thats only if you utilise the onscreen navigator. if you don't then the HC1000 with HC200,300,500 combo is fine in my opinion.Our office has a stupid amount of driverworks drivers integrating pretty much everything and even that HC1000 is only using 1% cpu at idle with 0.09 load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazplex Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Wap,I agree with your post above here. I think the $400 mark seems fair (my opinion only, they could go for more or less, that remains to be seen), but you need to have:A) no need for the additional inputs or features on the HC-800 - I currently have a 32TB file server so the lack of esata is not an issue for my project a dealer willing to do it for youIf you meet those criteria, it's still a viable option IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I don't know any other electronics manufacter that does this. Even if it's technically a computer, it's still sold as an electronics component. I can't open up my plasma to add 3D or my receiver and add 7.1 to it by going back to the dealer. Technology evolves, and last years model is always worth less than the newer one.Actually you can do some of these things, not all but some. Though it's not necessarily supported, but someone doing these things doesn't typically require support.Oh and plenty of pro-level electronics company build their equipment to be able to be upgraded. In the end it's easy to understand why they do this and consumer manufactures don't, purchase price, recurring sales or planed obsolence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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