-defunct-

4 minutes ago, LollerAgent said:

You made an assumption that he was trying to use Pro.  Not sure why, although not surprised.

New user + DIY comments. Assumed because generally the desire is full control with Pro, not HE.

My assumption was wrong in this case, but I'd argue it is the atypical case.

17 minutes ago, Vandak said:

Thanks for the quick reply. I’m hoping to DIY much of this. I have basic programming skills and have played with other open source automation systems in the last. Control4 and is new to me… I don’t know where to start.

 

I understand it’s pretty locked down unless you are a dealer. Is it common that dealers are willing to work with DIYers or am I looking for a small subset? 

No, Dealers that give a license to Composer Pro to their customers risk losing their entire dealership.

Likely need a dealer, control4.com has a dealer locator that can help you pick any that you want to contact. Systems are not limited to a single dealer.

That description is marketing lingo, not how it technically functions.

That misunderstanding alone has led to too many poor mesh designs that sales engineers have had to fix and customer complaints.

I've looked over many of them. If a long distance exists between two areas, a mesh controller is better to use and the ideal solution vs attempting to extend the mesh to the remote area.

1 minute ago, chopedogg88 said:

The Z2IO is absolutely a mesh extender. What guideline rule does it not follow? 

The updated ones in tech.control4.com.

It is a routing node, not an extender. It's no different than a lightswitch or outlet switch minus it supports more routing connections. It's best centralized to a mesh, not added on the outside of a mesh.

6 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

Thanks, I have a z2io in my garage and it is always weak signal strength.   It has C4 lights within 10 ft of it.   Not sure why its not meshing more reliably.

Z2IOs are designed as one of the best routing nodes but should be central to a mesh, not the outskirts.

If you had a mesh controller within 10ft of it, then you'd see a better signal.

4 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

Or you can use a z2io which is also a mesh extender for around $180 msrp new. Personally I prefer to install a dimmer or keypad dimmer to extend the mesh if it works from a logistical perspective... That way you get some use out of it other than just extending the mesh. 

Z2io does have relays, contacts, IR and also a temp sensor though, and with lack of MyQ cloud integration I do often use a z2io in the garage anyways to control the MyQ motors and provide mesh extension. 

They are not extenders btw. Just another zigbee node and not a good solution for it.

Also, it does not follow the new zigbee design guidelines for stable meshes.

HC250s won't work on OS3, but the best way is having a mesh controller. Cheapest method for that is a CA1.

38 minutes ago, zaphod said:

By this are you referring to the C4AMP108?  Those seemed to have issues, but the C4-16AMP3-B seems rock solid, despite being older.

Correct. That matrix amplifier and the 4 zone matrix amp are awesome.

1 hour ago, OceanDad said:

I agree, but only up to a point.  C4 touchscreens, Chime intercom, and C4's camera integration have been some of the most disappointing pieces from a customer experience POV over the last few years, for a variety of reasons.  Add Neeo to that list if you like.  From a hardware perspective, C4 native amps and matrix gear haven't done too well in the reliability stakes either.

Note: I did not list the mobile apps, Neeo, or SR 260.

I have not heard of issues with the Chime or DS2 with a pure local system after the changes made the intercom preview as unicast instead of multicast as long as the network is good.

C4's camera experience hasn't had issues if you disregard the mobile app.

I haven't heard of issues with the Triad equipment, the Control4 amp's power supply obviously wasn't the best.

Probably the lowest maintenance setup I could think of if the local network is rock-solid:

-C4 controllers

-C4 zigbee lighting

-C4 touchscreens

-Triad amps and matrix switches

-C4 chime

-IP Cameras with certified or C4-developed driver

Just now, ejn1 said:

I think everyone has their own definition, but several friends that I know who are not tech savvy and have a C4 system, my sense was that anything more than 1-2 times/yr that had to call a dealer would frustrate them to no end.   

Ya, that is reasonable. Sometimes hard with such a wide ecosystem of devices from different manufacturers. I've seen automatic updates from other vendors break control and require on-site reconfiguration.

16 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

These are also not Control4 jobs either but the practice is the same. 

That's fine. I still appreciate the fact you bring the practice to the industry.

Just now, Control4Savant said:

Thanks. If someone is willing to spend $20k+ with me on managed technology I can surely give them a free hour or two of my time when they need something simple.

That's the way I think too. Good business practices like that can lead to further purchases as well.

31 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

I wasn't assuming all parties aren't being paid for services rendered...

Fair. I guess I am assuming on your definition of 'low-touch'.

What is the minimal you expect in interactions from a dealer in your ideal system? (Assuming a dealer is required for updates, additions, and troubleshooting).

50 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

I do. 

Nice. I appreciate that. Honestly wish more did.

It is the case now, but was not the case a few years ago and when OS3 released, so the upgrade conversation on devices not supported for OS3 should have been had a very long time ago. Possibly after the older touch screens stopped getting software updates.

EOL'ing devices during a shortage obviously isn't the greatest idea, so it wouldn't happen now. Continuing support would be the ideal there.

I do expect hardware to be replaced every 5 years with IoT due to how fast the hardware security specs and feature specs are changing.

I don't know of any dealer that updates without being paid either in a service contract or in a one-time service charge.

Automatic updates are invisible, but very limited in scope.

Coming from the manufacturer side and seeing security implemented, anybody that 'sets up and forgets' a modern smart system is potentially leaving a security hole in their network. Every device should be on their latest version and entirely removed if it hasn't had a software update, firmware update, or patch within the last three to six months.

Regular updates with constant coordination to ensure functionality after each.

Updates to devices occur very frequently, it would also be wise to work with a dealer to ensure devices are cycled out when they are no longer supported, especially for security reasons.

Personally, if I ever installed a system as a dealer this would by my minimum:

Full network access

Remote monitoring with OvrC

Promote native touch screens over the mobile app

Avoid third party solutions as much as possible (even though I do have some in my own system, but would prefer them being replaced with a good 1st party alternative)

When the network is solid, ISP is solid, and rf interference is low, then the system should be very reliable.

To avoid delay on starting the audio, I would put the power cycle on the room off.

Our recommended methods are to use the Sonos app to clear the queue, or reboot the Sonos device.

Sonos has a few things in their cloud API that they haven't ported to their local API. Once they do, I'm sure the feature will be added.

4 minutes ago, jimbones said:

Interesting. Does the Sonos driver use the undocumented UPNP API then?

If that’s the case, then maybe there is still hope. The node.js Sonos HTTP API, which is based on the UPNP API, has a clear queue action. The local UPNP API must support that then?

https://github.com/jishi/node-sonos-http-api

No. Their certified works with sonos local API.