EDID Expertise?

[Time2Jet]

Guys - I get this isn’t necessarily the proper forum for this, but there are some really savvy people here, so I assume I’m going to get some advice.

 

I’m struggling with a nasty EDID issue that is plaguing my A/V setup. Thus seemingly started recently, but I can’t be 100% sure this wasn’t always an issue that hadn’t raised its ugly head.

 

Here’s my 2 Zone Setup: (All is current firmware)

 

AVR:

Denon X8500H

 

Sources:

2X TiVo Bolt

2X Roku Ultra

1 X Samsung M9700 BluRay

1 X Control4 EA-5 OSD

 

Cables:

Certified 4k 18gbps BJC with Ethernet

 

Extenders

AVPro Edge AC-EX100-444-KIT *Not gen2

Over CAT6a

100’ each

 

Outputs:

Monitor 1

Zone 2

 

Displays:

Samsung 75Q900R

Samsung 65Q9FN

 

Inputs:

HDMI 1 (Both Sets)

 

So per past posts, this problem started in early November. I had no idea, but seemingly Roku pushed out an update that caused things to do haywire. I have done as much troubleshooting as a human can do and I have reached out to all equip mfrs (each of course blames the other, but all agree it’s an EDID issue)

 

Roku replaced one of the Ultras and claims to have updated and tested my replacement piece. Did not solve.

 

AVPro sent me out new gen2 baluns - I have not installed them yet. Gen2 adds test patterns and EDID management switches.

 

TiVo always works, as dies the BluRay and the C4 OSD. Roku is very tricky. When I can get a pic, it’s fickle. Usually, lasts for a day or more, but always eventually fails.

 

Does anyone have any idea what is going on? Will the new AVPro gen2 EX100-444 baluns better negotiate a handshake?

 

This is so frustrating. I’m told that it’s the perfect storm of Denon/Roku/Samsung

 

 

 

 

 

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[OceanDad]

What do you have your Roku Settings ----> Video set to ?  Auto ? 4k/60 ? 4k/30 HDR ?  What firmware are you on ?

Roku 9.2 seems to have given a lot of people HDMI handshake issues, especially when fed via an AVR.  I see issues on mine at 4k/30 HDR, but no problem at 4k/60.

[Time2Jet]

Unfortunately, I can’t easily get them (either/both) to display to change the settings. What I have to go through to get a display is absurd and definitely hit or miss. You can’t set them to auto , because they will try to push HDR 60Hz once they see the displays are capable. I tried a portable monitor at the rack, but it’s 720 and when I force the Rokus to 4k HDR 30Hz it hates it.

At the onset (right at the Doku 9.2 update, what was happening was one of the 2 that updated to 9.2 (original build) wouldn’t originally display HDR @60Hz to Zone 2, but would to the main zone. But it (the original troubled one) would display HDR @30Hz to either fine. The one displaying to the main zone was always fine and could display HDR 60Hz to either zone. So that seemingly told me the displays were fine, the extender paths were fine and that it had to be a bad Roku. They replaced it, but new one eventually broke even worse. Now both Rokus won’t display unless I go through hit or miss power cycle routines (same sequence doesn’t work twice). Crazy right? This has to be with handshake timing or voltage. My TiVo’s never fail. BluRay never fails.

I am praying that the new gen2 AVPro Edge EX100-444 baluns with enhanced EDID control might be the solution.


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[OceanDad]

Pretty sure that the best that you will do reliably is 4K/60 non-HDR.  If you can manage to set that manually, it should work OK.

[Time2Jet]

That’s admitting defeat! No one that accepts defeat comes to this forum. (I say half-jokingly).

I need to get this right.


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[OceanDad]

Following with interest, specifically to see whether the AV-Pro Edge kit can do this reliably.  Out of interest have you ever tried a 4K Apple TV box through the same setup ?

[lippavisual]

Does the Denon allow the same specs on both outputs?  I’m guessing not.

I’ve always tried to stay away from using separate zones in an avr. 
 

definitely an Edid problem though. 

[Time2Jet]

Thanks@lippavisual

Yes, according to Denon the outputs are identical and will pass up to 4K HDR 60Hz. 4:4:4.

I was just tinkering and power cycled everything. That didn’t work this time, but if I power cycled (and unplugged both ends of the HDMI cables AND the Ethernet on each Roku... I have both displays now working and passing HDR @60Hz)

The Roku’s have an advanced setting for “Auto-adjust display refresh rate” and it defaults to disabled. They also have an advanced setting for HDR sub sampling that defaults to 4:2:0 (versus 4:2:2). I’ve left them alone, because I feel these settings are one of the things that if I change to the specified capabilities of my system are breaking the handshake.

Again, I’m hoping when I swap out the baluns the new gen2 AVPro EX100-444’s with EDID mgmt and test patterns this could solve this. Crossing my fingers.

Lastly, I don’t want to compromise what I paid so much to “work”. I want the best possible display resolutions from the native sources they can feed. Others settle for what “works”, but I bought all of this higher-end stuff so that it would “work”.

After this experience, I will never use another AVR as a matrix. In this industry, I feel like we settle sometimes. If they sell a high end major brand AVR with a spec, it should work, same with a media streamers, baluns and displays. It’s not like there isn’t a standard today. HDCP 2.2/HDMI 2.0 should just work, so long as everything in its path is spec’d to work. I haven’t exceeded any lengths bandwidths etc.

It’s really quite frustrating. I don’t want to have to buy black box technology to make things work the way that they’re already sold to “work”. EDID management devices are expensive. I know we all suffer with this issue at times, but it’s not like we’re buying a bunch of generic devices and asking them to talk to each other. These are flagship Denon, High End Baluns and cables, High End Samsung, and Roku... everyday products that are specified to work. Too many people use AVR’s for distribution, baluns, etc for it all not to work. Okay, I’m done ranting. But I’m glad you chimed in @lippavisual You always have great insight.


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[Time2Jet]

13 hours ago, OceanDad said:

Following with interest, specifically to see whether the AV-Pro Edge kit can do this reliably.  Out of interest have you ever tried a 4K Apple TV box through the same setup ?

I have not tried an Apple TV yet.  I definitely will.

I'll let you know if the new gen2 AVPro Edge kit solves.  I'm their biggest fan, I want this to work.  Their HDBaseT Baluns are not inexpensive, but I swear they have the ultimate support and this will be the first time ever that one of their baluns didn't do specifically what it was spec'd to do.  I cannot even find any info on the orignal, just the AC-EX100-444-Kit gen2 model. Hopefully, this is precisely the reason they didn't hesitate to replace them for me.  Good people there.

[Time2Jet]

Here's what they advertise my new baluns as:

 

Total EDID Management: The AC-EX100-444-KIT-GEN2 has robust EDID control.  EDID management allows you to manage the input device and request specific video resolutions and/or audio codecs.  the following EDID options are available: 

• EDID Bypass 
• 1080P 2CH Audio 
• 1080P 8CH Audio 
• 4K60 4:2:0 2CH Audio 
• 4K60 4:2:0 8CH Audio 
• 4K60 4:4:4 HDR 2CH Audio 
• 4K60 4:4:4 HDR 8CH Audio 
• USER EDID – EDID Copy 

The EDID Copy Function allows you to copy and save from any display or projector you want to. 

[OceanDad]

55 minutes ago, time2jet said:

I have not tried an Apple TV yet.  I definitely will.

I'll let you know if the new gen2 AVPro Edge kit solves.  I'm their biggest fan, I want this to work.  Their HDBaseT Baluns are not inexpensive, but I swear they have the ultimate support and this will be the first time ever that one of their baluns didn't do specifically what it was spec'd to do.  I cannot even find any info on the orignal, just the AC-EX100-444-Kit gen2 model. Hopefully, this is precisely the reason they didn't hesitate to replace them for me.  Good people there.

What happens if you take the Denon out of the chain ?  Do you manage 4K/60 HDR without a problem ?  Might be worth trying just to narrow in on the issue.

[Time2Jet]

4 minutes ago, OceanDad said:

What happens if you take the Denon out of the chain ?  Do you manage 4K/60 HDR without a problem ?  Might be worth trying just to narrow in on the issue.

I'm about to try that tonight, for some reason, I never did.  Simple enough though.

I also did some digging and the AVPro series I'm currently using until I have time to take the displays off of the walls (not gen2 of the EX100-444 model) does allow you to copy & save the EDID from the display with some button press sequences.

[Matt Lowe]

i can confirm the avr-x8500 has full hdmi outputs on both. I use direct hdmi to my oled and QLED in two zones and get full hdr support from my shield tv and x800 player.

[Time2Jet]

6 minutes ago, Matt Lowe said:

i can confirm the avr-x8500 has full hdmi outputs on both. I use direct hdmi to my oled and QLED in two zones and get full hdr support from my shield tv and x800 player.

Matt - So you still have the X8500! Thought you were getting away from it.  Is there a setting I could be missing in the Denon?  I have the 4K Signal format set to Enhanced right now, but I don't see any sort of way to otherwise make sure the Denon can pass at least 4:4:2 chroma subsampling?

[Matt Lowe]

mine passes full 4:4:4 on both hdmi outs. you can log into the web gui and go to information to see input and output information. Moved away from video storm and using the 8500 for distribution currently.